AI & Ethics Art, Creativity, Tech

 Auto-transcribed on Wednesday, September 18, 2024.media and text playback available on this page: https://aliceapp.ai/recordings/BNxgpLri6E4DUG1dlayn_XwOkvA9Wmju

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Words: 	3,242 	
Duration: 	00:23:00 	
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Uploaded on: 	2024-09-18 00:55:05 UTC 	
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Using: 	Uploaded to aliceapp.ai 	

Speakers:

 Speaker A - 33.31%

 Speaker B - 66.69%

Notes:

- Yoshiki: I'm here to bring up the issue how artistic industry, like entertainment industry and then technology industry can coexist. Also, I wanted to look at this AI issue from inside and outside. So inside means creating AI products. Outside means as an, um, entertainment industry.- I'm very lucky to be in this industry. I'm part of the ecosystem. Because of this ecosystem, I'm still motivated to create amazing art. AI could be, depends on how we develop it, how we use it. Could be also a disruptive tool for this ecosystem.- Music producer talks about how important it is that technology companies and the creative ecosystem, the music ecosystem, come together in dialogue. Both sides have like amazing things going on. I respect both industries then.- Do you think there's any potential that, uh, people will ingest AI creativity in the same way as electronic music? Or is it really about this personal connection that can't be replaced? Those two things needs to be carefully discussed.- The AI movement is somehow unstoppable. We need to try to find a way to coexist. There may be some, like, inspirational, you know, sound, or something AI can create. So then we can concentrate on more creativity side as well.- Dreamforce attendees can receive a complimentary special edition of this year's time 100 AI issue. Yoshiki: This is a moment where the future is in our hands. It's about how we design the future of technology and people working together. Let's find a way to code, exist and create a better future.

[00:00:04]  Speaker A 
Um, I am so, so excited for this conversation, Yoshiki. And it just gets richer and richer the more we dive into it. So let me just start with the first 1st question, which is you have, um, an incredible domain of expertise, both in art and creativity, as we just saw from this bio, but also in technology. And I want to start with this question of instances where AI has inspired or enhanced your work.

[00:00:34]  Speaker B 
Okay, so in terms of creating an art, as you know, I'm an artist, so, um, I do not use AI to create an art yet as of now. So. But I also create such as, like a humanoid, like AI yoshiki. So, um, I'm here to kind of like bring up the issue how artistic industry, you know, like entertainment industry and then technology industry can coexist. So yeah, that's really helpful.

[00:01:09]  Speaker A 
And I had a chance to look at this AI Yoshiki project, which is, this is the, um, basically a humanoid Yoshiki that can interact with your fans. Is that right?

[00:01:18]  Speaker B 
Yes, yes.

[00:01:19]  Speaker A 
So why don't we have a very brief video on that so you all can get a sense of it. Why don't we queue up that second video, take a look.

[00:02:06]  Speaker B 
Mhm hm.

[00:02:49]  Speaker A 
Um, I'm really curious, what was the inspiration for that?

[00:02:55]  Speaker B 
So, um, regardless if I do something or not, they're going to create my AI yoshiki anyway. That will exist sooner or later, so might as well create my own AI. Also, I wanted to look at this AI issue from inside and outside. So inside means creating AI products. Outside means as an, um, entertainment industry. Usually entertainment industries are very scared of what's happening in this AI, uh, technology, right this moment.

[00:03:35]  Speaker A 
Got it. Okay. And on that point, I know you've been, um, you've mentioned the concern, uh, that AI might potentially be used to copy or mimic an artist's unique style. Um, and I guess you just said you might as well get ahead of it and own it and be in control of it. But I'm curious what you think should be the response of the japanese government or governments around the world about that concern.

[00:04:05]  Speaker B 
So again, I think it's a urgent issue we need to discuss, uh, between the entertainment industry as well as, you know, industry who create, uh, AI technologies. So let's see, um, you know, but at the same time, you know, as of now, you know, the uh, let's see the music AI is creating. There are few companies like let's see, suno or udo, uh, making like you could put a few words like a, uh, coffee, beach and um, sunshine. Then you can make the music. The music is like, um, instant coffee, right? I was like, hmm, hm. Is it right? Or like, let's see, the open air announced several months ago, Sora, that technology can create, uh, amazing picture, you know, um, motion picture. Like, uh. So entertainment industry is very concerned about what's happening right this moment. But in terms of art, right? So let's see, I am also a composer. I'm a classical composer as well. So some people know me as a rock star. Some people know me a classical pianist, classical composers. I composed, um, let's see, uh, piano concert for Emperor of Japan 20th anniversary. I spent about several weeks of composing the song. So those three, four, five weeks, I just went through ups and downs on, like, feeling sad or feeling happy. So the process of making art this time is also an art. So, you know, if you have, your goal is b, from a to b. If you can get to bhidden, the speed of light, boom, m, they can create an art. But that's that we don't have that process. So as of now. So we. I'm, you know, pretty confident, you know, about being, you know, art as human. You know, you can give, the AI cannot give entire experience, but you don't know about 200 years from now. Let's see. You know, I'm a big class, huge fan of Beethoven, all the classical artists. So we are thinking about, I'm still playing that composition we made 200 years ago, such a better ben Mulder sonata or something like this. So what we should really think about 100 years from now or 200 years from now, what kind of music are they going to be listened to, the music made by an artist? They are human or made by AI.

[00:06:47]  Speaker A 
Right, well, I think that's important to underline what you said. The process of making art is also an art. Right? And we were riffing on this. I was talking about how when I write, and I'll get a first draft down, and then I'll sit with it and I'll think about it, and I'll see the ideas everywhere. But I'm wondering if you think about, is that what distinguishes AI, creativity and human creativity? Like, do you think that there's a part of human creativity that could never be replaced by AI?

[00:07:19]  Speaker B 
Good question. So, um, as of now, um, AI is. I mean, as far as I know, AI is not there yet.

[00:07:29]  Speaker A 
Yeah, but I would agree with you.

[00:07:30]  Speaker B 
I'm not underestimating the possibility of AI. So, you know, AI AGI. So, you know, there's a lot to be said. I mean, uh, right now, let's see, those company, um, AI create generative, creative music companies, uh, are being sued by major labels such as Sony wanna Music, um, universal. So those who are gonna be, I don't know, I don't know where it's gonna be. But, uh, but when you see, when you, when you actually like, you know, use this kind of like AI generative tools to compose music, again, it's something, something is a little too much. It's obvious, like they are collecting data from the music already exists. They are just, there's already copyrighted.

[00:08:25]  Speaker A 
Right.

[00:08:25]  Speaker B 
So, you know, I kind of can predict where that is going, but that's only me. So me only speaking. But let's see, even these kind of lawsuits, they are saying that there are few words, maybe keywords could be one words. Fair use also, ah, transformative. You know, the melody already exists, it's copyrighted, um, you know, let's see, ten years ago. Then they can use that, use that same melody because it's a fair use. So they're okay. Also viewers, transformative. So, okay, let's revisit the definition of those two words, especially. Anyway, those, those arguments can keep going on and on and on and on.

[00:09:10]  Speaker A 
Yeah.

[00:09:11]  Speaker B 
But I would like to, uh, say something about being an artist. We give them like, uh, how do you say, you know, people come to my concert or like, listen to my music and they get something, you know, get very excited. Sometimes they become happy. They make, I make them smile, make you guys smile. I make you guys sad or make you guys cry. So these kind of like, uh, things, you know, happen because of. I'm very lucky to be in this industry. Um, I'm part of the ecosystem. So I mean, I create, um, you know, music record. They are recording engineers also. There are people who, you know, distribute all those. Then they are listeners. There's an ecosystem. So I somehow want to preserve this amazing ecosystem. Because of this ecosystem, I'm still motivated to create amazing art then, you know, because then the art is gonna motivate, uh, people or, uh, affect somebody's life. So then vice versa. Then I hear feedback coming from you guys, like, wow, that, you know, I m changed somebody's life. But the music I made that actually, you know, the uh, thoughts actually changing my life, which is kind of helping each other, that's humans been doing helping each other. So we don't want to, I want to keep this kind of like an ecosystem. So we don't want to put like, uh, let's see, piranhas to your, you know, neighbor's pond or water to create, destroy the ecosystems. So AI could be, depends on how we develop it, how we use it. Could be also a uh, disruptive tool for this ecosystem. Ecosystem as well.

[00:11:10]  Speaker A 
And I know you've talked about how important it is that technology companies and the creative ecosystem, the music ecosystem, come together in dialogue. Did you want to say anything about that?

[00:11:22]  Speaker B 
I think so. Um, like uh, as of now, uh, entertainment industry is very scared of what's happening then, you know, trying to be, trying to like, uh, protect our, what we have been doing.

[00:11:40]  Speaker A 
Yeah.

[00:11:40]  Speaker B 
Then, uh, the technology developers uh, are trying to do something innovative. Um, I'm not taking sides. I think they are also, uh, both sides have like amazing things going on. You know, I respect both industries then. I do both actually.

[00:11:57]  Speaker A 
Mhm.

[00:11:58]  Speaker B 
So, but I think it's really a lot of communication.

[00:12:01]  Speaker A 
Yeah.

[00:12:02]  Speaker B 
So what's the uh, meaning of doing this? It's like a kind of like philosophy, philosopher philosophy issue. Philosophical issue. Kind of why, why we are living in this world. Right. If you go to a to b bus your goal. So if you go again at the speed of light, you get to, you achieve everything in the speed of light. What's the medium m living? Because if it goes to the ups and downs, like, you know, uh, I don't think I should talk about that much of my personal life, but I lost my mother about two years ago. Then, uh, I've been trying, trying in Hollywood, so I didn't spend enough time with my mother. So I was like, when I lost my mother, I was like, I didn't know what to do. But uh, because the social media and everything, uh, actually I kind of like, you know, Instagram or uh, Twitter or x or whatever, I expressed my feeling then. My fans helped me. Wow, we can technology like this too. This really helped me also, at the same time, I put anti my sadness, the agony into my music, I started composing music. So it's like, um, you know, there's a. How do you say that human can still do this kind of thing?

[00:13:21]  Speaker A 
Yeah, no, I'm really touched by what you're saying. And I was touched by your video and your story. Um, and I was thinking about that, I was thinking about, uh, AI Yoshiki and how the reason that uh, I assume that you made aiyushiki is for, to extend your reach with fans, that you have more personal connection. More connection, but it wouldn't exist if they didn't care about you as a person. Right. So I'm wondering if you think that, do you think there's any potential that, uh, people will ingest AI creativity in the same way? Or is it really about this personal connection that can't be replaced?

[00:14:02]  Speaker B 
Good questions. So, regarding AI Yoshiki, I'm also testing how that technology can be good. So as of now, I did a conversation with my, you know, the AI Yoshiki. My English is better, right?

[00:14:21]  Speaker A 
This morning, your English is better than AI Yoshiki's English.

[00:14:25]  Speaker B 
I know AI gonna speak like, a 20 language, um, next year, probably, right? Like, it's gonna be speaking French and only Japanese, maybe other language. So. But I'm trying to figure out what I have. But, uh, aio, he does not have. So again, I'm trying to look at this, ah, technology trend or development from inside and outside.

[00:14:49]  Speaker A 
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[00:14:51]  Speaker B 
It's kind of like a tool to see how.

[00:14:56]  Speaker A 
Right.

[00:14:57]  Speaker B 
Yeah.

[00:14:58]  Speaker A 
Um, I'm wondering if we look back to history and we think about balancing tradition and innovation. When I was visiting Japan, a lot of people talked to me about the importance of craftsmanship, the respect for craftsmanship, that sort of a cultural value. Um, and it goes back to what you were saying about process, about how people spend a lot of time learning a craft and then become a master of that craft and then thinking about, ah, even past generations of technology. Right. So when, um, electronic music was introduced into the music industry, I don't think people took it for granted that that was legitimate. In the same way, do you think that we're at a similar moment with AI, or is this different?

[00:15:43]  Speaker B 
Good question. So when electronic music came, you know, it was also controversial at that moment, but somehow these, like, uh, you know, now that the genre exists, EDM, which is amazing.

[00:15:58]  Speaker A 
Yeah.

[00:15:58]  Speaker B 
So some people, like, even I did combine, like, a Beethoven's classical music and then EDM at the same time. Right. So. So that electric music was, uh, blended into this, like a, uh, long history of music. M. You know, music, uh, perfectly. So. But the creating, the, uh, that's not coming from the Monaco compositional side. So it's more like a, you know, creating the sound kind of sound designing. So instead of piano, we have like a electric piano. Yeah. Electric sounds into it, but still, like, under humans control.

[00:16:37]  Speaker A 
Right.

[00:16:38]  Speaker B 
So, yeah, it's a. Yeah, but, you know, it's a good, good example then. Yeah. Electronic music there was, like, innovation made it beautifully into this, uh, music scene. Yeah, yeah, that's a good example, actually. Yeah. But I don't know that right now. The technology, I don't want to go too far, but it's like a, uh, I don't know if I say it might be too controversial, but let's see, we have a, uh, technology to destroy the ecosystem. I think it's already there. People, people. No, it's already there. If you talk about something. Complete metaphor.

[00:17:24]  Speaker A 
Right?

[00:17:24]  Speaker B 
We do have a, uh, bomb to destroy everything, but we don't push that button.

[00:17:32]  Speaker A 
Yeah.

[00:17:32]  Speaker B 
Right. So we are carefully trying to figure that out. Right. Same thing. How we want to preserve this amazing entertainment world. So then how we want to, you know, create, uh, an amazing innovation.

[00:17:51]  Speaker A 
Yeah.

[00:17:52]  Speaker B 
Those two things needs to be carefully, you know, discussed. Like you need to have a lot of, um, discussion. So there's a fine line to it. Yeah, yeah. So I see both sides argument then. Yeah. More than honor to be talking to both sides.

[00:18:14]  Speaker A 
Oh, that's really important. And it's so rare. And, uh, we talk a lot. I mean, to your point about the technology itself, as you know, I know you're friends with our CEO, Mark Benioff, and one of the things he often says is that technology itself is not good or bad. It's how we use it that matters. And I think what we're getting at here in this conversation is that when it comes to AI and m creativity, it's how we design it. It's the use case. It's making sure that the human stays in control of it, that it's in service of human creativity. So I want to ask you, as you look forward to the future, you've laid out, um, concerns. You've also, um, told me about places that you think AI can augment people being creative. So you've shown us AI yoshiki, I know you were talking to me about how sound technicians can use AI to diagnose problems and find them sooner. So paint us a picture. What are you excited about? And then what are the challenges that you really want to make sure that we tackle?

[00:19:15]  Speaker B 
I mean, you know, technology is always, like, uh, very inspirational for me.

[00:19:20]  Speaker A 
Yeah.

[00:19:21]  Speaker B 
Like a long, long time ago, we talked about Internet. You know, some people are like, uh, against that. Like, yeah, but so now, I mean, everyone is connected throughout the world, so this AI movement is somehow unstoppable. So we have to. Again, I keep saying the same thing, but we need to try to find a way to coexist. So there may be some, like, uh, inspirational, you know, sound, uh, or something AI can create. Like, wow. Like, I don't want to be too technical, but, you know, there's a sound that people cannot hear, but people can feel. There's a certain heart, the low frequency, high frequency, something like that. A combination of those. AI can create. Oh, that gives great inspiration for this. So there also, uh, AI can find out in the process of making the, uh, art. Let's see if you are making a film. I'm also a film director as well. I made film.

[00:20:25]  Speaker A 
It's amazing. It's really amazing the breadth of your.

[00:20:28]  Speaker B 
Of your work last year. Let's see if you are making a film, then. Uh, somehow we didn't realize sun's coming from the north to the south. No, we have to correct that. AI can find out that this kind of thing can you screen with the AI or the sun needs to come from that side, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I can do those kind of correction things, too. So then we can concentrate on more creativity side as well. So depends on how we, you know, uh, use AI or like we exist together. That's a key, I think.

[00:21:05]  Speaker A 
Yeah, that makes a, that makes a lot of sense. Um, um, well, we're, we're almost at the end. Um, here. Um, Yoshiki, although I feel like we could go on and on, and I just want to, I'm so grateful that you're raising your voice on this topic. You told me earlier that you feel like it's your job to raise the question so people hear them. And clearly from the packed nature of this room, there are a lot of people that are listening. I feel like this is a moment where the future is in our hands. Right. It's not like there's some unstoppable force. It's about how we design the future of technology and people working together. Together. So I'm curious, what words you want to leave us with? Is there a call to action? A conclusion? Are there thoughts you want to leave us with on this topic?

[00:21:53]  Speaker B 
I think everybody's voice matters. So, you know, somebody is going to be just creating AI technology, or somebody's, uh, artist gonna be just, um, being scared. I think we should really discuss and we should jump into this issue like, uh, you know, you are somehow using AI. Like a small percentage, a lot percentage. AI is here. So then let's find a way to coexist, and then let's create a bright future.

[00:22:22]  Speaker A 
AI is here. Let's find a way to code, exist, and create a better future. I could not be more grateful for your coming and sharing your wisdom with us. Yoshiki. Can we please give Yoshiki a round of applause?

[00:22:36]  Speaker B 
Thank you. Thank you.

[00:22:38]  Speaker A 
Really, truly, deeply an honor and an inspiration. And I think we're all going to take away the words of wisdom that you've shared with us. So thank you very much and thank you very much for joining us for this important conversation. Dreamforce attendees can receive a complimentary special edition of this year's time 100 AI issue.