Speaker A [00:00:23]
Welcome to Eagle net cost. I am Martin Linda scope today. I'm talking to Ed Taylor at of backpack studio app. Hi Ed Hi, how are you? Doing? Martin? Good yourself. What are you thinking about? 

Speaker B [00:00:32]
Ah, just I don't do very many podcasts. So this is one of the first ones I've ever done. So I'm pretty excited. Yeah, that's great. And in this segment, I'm doing a search like ego search on your name and on your appear. So I when I started out I did it on Google first and I got over 35,000 results and first it was on your own site. So that's good. Thanks, dude, your app.com 

Speaker B [00:00:55]
And for videos of the review videos, but also your own videos instructional videos and then a tutorial site for you and then your app store how to get it. So we will do a call to action by vertebra should get to the Apple App Store and then also cycle app levees and then podcast in use and then your Facebook page and end on the first page. Where on there. 

Speaker B [00:01:47]
Results was photos of backpacks. So because you could have your smartphone in a backpack so you had funny because I really I signed up for a I signed up for Google Alerts. You know that whenever somebody publishes about backpack Studio, I get an alert and 85% of the alerts or like cool backpacks. Yeah, but maybe that should be one like in the in the future and filler words backpack here design back. Yeah smartphone. 

Speaker B [00:02:04]
And the gear yeah, I just need to find somebody that if there's any backpack manufacturers listening we should do that. Yeah, and great backpack is outside and then on page to my post the backpack for podcasters on Eagle net cost showed up. So I'm happy with that. But that's from my has View and perspective. I don't know if you get the same results at or somebody else out there in the world, but then I did a search on your 

Speaker B [00:02:47]
Ed is it feel wet. Is that the right permutation? Okay. Yeah, but like Kellogg with enough. Yeah, so that's why you have these other app called kilowatt, right? Yeah. I have a I have a couple music apps that I make and then a couple of other minor Audio Apps that backpack studio is the main app right now. Yeah, and then I guess like 700 results and very it was on your Twitter because you're pretty active are linked in Yeah medium account. 

Speaker A [00:03:24]
I'm thinking of starting creating content there, but I haven't done yet, but I'm following a bit and it's interesting there model also with premium and saint of you have read certain articles where and then the Apple App Store Facebook and then brochure. I'm not sure that you have done it but it was a menu for some restaurant or some flour, but it could be another ad feel of what I don't know. There's only one had followed the okay. Then you have done it back in the day some some kind of what I was out. 

Speaker B [00:03:51]
I was a web designer. I started programming before I got into audio. I was a web developer. Yeah, and I did that for my whole 20s what and I don't a million websites. So my name could probably end up on a lot of websites that's good. So you really have done it with the HTML coding and so on back in the day I party is what I got. Ya I put in my time with HTML and JavaScript the me and then 

Speaker B [00:04:17]
on Mixcloud because I mean you're you're interesting in music and and this could be DJing thing and so on and also YouTube your channel there and Pinterest and there are souls and you had some interest in some certain pattern and so on and and also sketching as a cat wear another ring like that. Yes, I could say that for rock record director your app is very how to say please sing in visual ER it's nice. 

Speaker B [00:04:25]
Look at and and it's it's easy to understand and to use and it looks good. It's thank you. Yeah, so and we even have an hour approve of it. It looked good when somebody else was taking a picture of it when I used the app for a client and she was recording an interview a person there and somebody took a picture in the room. Then it almost glowed from the screen where with this pads. Yeah call it now. 

Speaker A [00:04:57]
Now pads, right? Yeah. Hopefully I didn't go overboard with that. They definitely I like it like that. Yeah. 

Speaker B [00:05:27]
They're connected to the decibels. So the louder the the louder the music and the past sound pads the brighter they glow so hopefully I didn't know I've seen people load up songs that were really compressed and really loud and like the whole app like turns blue. It's like The Equalizer thing back in the day. So yeah, exactly. Yeah, so and then on Pinterest you had as I said and then Flicker and very we could probably 

Speaker A [00:05:55]
Only come back to that there. I saw some it's almost looked like a knee upside down or something like that go and then it was powered by libsyn and it was a photo from 2007. Do you want to talk about? Okay, it was a Plimpton. Yeah. Yeah word by libsyn and it was some on some exhibition. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I was I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Yeah, and that's my body started lips. 

Speaker B [00:06:27]
And and I was a web developer at the time and I was their first employee. Hmm. So well, maybe their second. Hi, like there's I was either their first or their second. I think they hired us together when they were able to start hiring people. So we went out to California and we built a big booth and it says wizard on it. And yeah we was so then I said, yeah. Okay. We said, yeah, so that's the name of a company. Yeah. 

Speaker B [00:06:39]
In in as I said wizard was the company that bought lives in yeah. Yeah. Yes. So and and you see that I have a link to that when you have as I have for my clients and for myself my own Standalone app, but we talked about hearing the green room before and there is saying this we said company name also. So yeah. 

Speaker B [00:06:59]
Yes, and then on page two my-my put post showed up again and the backpack for podcasters on your name's I'm happy with that also for myself then idea. Thank you for do alternative search where so I am for the Privacy. So I searched on duck duck. So and okay before they had be scrolling functions your the results were not I mean stopping you could scroll forever, but now it's similar to go. 

Speaker B [00:07:51]
Go around 10 hits on every page but on the first page where it was no extra or null some different quotes. It was as an old I like electronic music. So since since since I systems on ice, it will review on a site called sin T frog and then your YouTube my YouTube channel. They're also showed up because I own lips and you could have several destinations. 

Speaker B [00:08:28]
Patients would talk that doors in The Green Room on for example Spotify, but it's easy to than your podcast is episode is uploaded you could pick different destination. It's all about the listeners where they want to listen. So for example, I have is not my premium or main Hub, but I have for example a premium account on Soundcloud but I use it as a destination and then I never mean some yeah, you can publish from lips in the SoundCloud. Yeah, but the good thing is that 

Speaker A [00:08:57]
that I don't I set up the settings / destinations as lips and installing it and they are taking care of if if SoundCloud would change something or something like that. They are fixing that so that's good. So and so so you don't have I mean you could do it manually also and I like the manual touch also. Yeah do things but when you could also see then how how it starts to populate in different destinations. So yes, I know he's doing that anytime play. Yeah. Yeah. 

Speaker A [00:09:18]
It's funny to hear about that because I don't that destination system. It looks and ten years ago. And in Western Nations honk honk. Well, SoundCloud wasn't really around back then like when I went there it when he's it's on different set of sites and it was mainly it was video Centric at the time. Yeah, because okay video was kind of 

Speaker A [00:09:21]
it was kind of before the YouTube celebrity exploded and a lot there was a lot of video podcasts that one is to publish, you know as video but then a service called tubemogul came out. I'm sure it's still around. So it was at that time when that destination system was built. It was all about sending to video sites. There was like really no concept of sending it to different audio places like, you know, the apps and Spotify like we have now, which is super awesome. 

Speaker B [00:09:58]
That you can do that the 10 years ago. That was just like experimental video. Yeah, so we are talking with a guy here with have lots of experience and knowledge and have done this journey, and I think that's fascinating because I did this blog post for a small business Trends several several years for doing compilation 400 so-called best podcast for small business owners and people are business. 

Speaker B [00:10:21]
Minded and then it was one year from one year to another I got this requests from people who said shouldn't you include video podcasting also the loggers also so I did that but then the gear then after it was not so many left and and Rob Wars have talked about that also with the statistics on a top top list. It's mainly audio but I like the destination we do too because then 

Speaker B [00:10:51]
Podcast then you have the show art. It's not so much showing on the on the shadow on the YouTube like this visual but it's your logo type and then some people want to listen that way also because they maybe they do something else on YouTube so they can listen on your podcast on YouTube. Right? And so the the search thing we talked about the app before it's the searchability. So if your podcast is listed on 

Speaker B [00:11:21]
YouTube it is a chance that your you you will get maybe new listeners to your podcast. I know for my own sake I should I mean invest some more time thinking about what I should do with so-called regular YouTube creation also and content creation where but I'm all for it, but it's like a jungle out there but I like is that you have a distant destination because I mean if you go to YouTube after some time 

Speaker B [00:11:51]
Saying what I have done or listening to watch as I like cats for example, cat videos or and so on and time spent and but it's good. Also when you want to search for something like instructional video, for example, how you use the boss. You're a poor now. It's called or backpack studio app. I mean then you often search on YouTube in order to find some information about them. So yeah, that's interesting talking about that Journey. 

Speaker A [00:12:26]
Regarding videos and podcasting. Yeah, ironically that's what I was actually working on this morning. So the big thing with podcasters now is audiograms. They're being called. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So like podcasters are using a whole plethora of different services and apps it's a basically add a visual on top of their audio and you know, usually make a short clip and sometimes 

Speaker A [00:12:51]
Describe it and then put it on Facebook and Instagram mainly maybe Snapchat to where it can be consumed really fast and then link to and that's that's that's been a giant feature request and something that I'm actually kind of good at is building visuals on top of things. So that's actually what I was working on this morning was the ability to just turn your audio into video so that it can be consumed because unfortunately Facebook and Instagram doesn't 

Speaker A [00:13:50]
Support just raw audio. So you can't you there has to be a visual to to like what you that visual be with a lot of these audiograms. It's like a moving wave hmm, you know a photo with a moving wave usually and sometimes text over top. So that's that's interesting because it's you know, that's an important thing right now. Yeah, so we will that be an add extra features that you will then like your pee-pee extra or is it including in the basically? I'm 

Speaker A [00:13:52]
I'm going to include it because I know how to do it and I still I don't want to. 

Speaker A [00:13:59]
In backpack Studio. It's a $10 up and I don't want to I don't want to look I don't want to nickel and dime people, you know, too many in-app purchases and subscriptions and stuff. So I'm just going to include it and I'm gonna have a couple visualizers and nothing simply like like we talked about before keeping it really simple because you're on a phone and you want to be able to do it quick and you don't want to maybe you don't want to use, you know, 10 different services and spend the whole day in iMovie creating, you know, something that you can share a clipping your show and 

Speaker A [00:14:51]
Um, yeah, I hear you because that's funny. Yeah. I mean I it's again about the listeners how they want to listen, but then if you want to promote your podcast and get reminded of of it exactly it's interesting with his audiogram, but then doing it in in a neat way. So I have looked around and I talked about in trying to come up with I actually asked on Twitter a couple weeks ago. Like what are what are some good audiograms that people like and I 

Speaker A [00:14:58]
got and there's you know, there's a few different ones in there all just kind of like, you know the waveform moving over top of the picture. So I'm I was trying to think us like real creative things like maybe 

Speaker B [00:15:39]
You know this goes into my more artistic side, maybe you know, you could pick an emoji in the mogees fly across the screen and blink to the audio or you know that yeah something like nothing a little more interesting. Yeah. Yeah, if you could include a cat for I'm all for it. Yeah, there's got to be cats. Yeah, because you know cats in invented the Internet or they are they have a pair of the stock. They are the stars of the internet. Yes. Yes. It doesn't make any sense, but they are let's go. 

Speaker B [00:16:08]
Dad because I mean recently we talked about also in the Green Room about easy to use apps and app podcast aggregator and overcast. Is that because that's also an iPhone for the record is your app and available for the people who are have chosen the other side so to speak or is it mainly for iPhone right now backpack studio is just iPhone. But yeah it could you as a 

Speaker A [00:16:24]
We're an Tech guy because I as a lady my eye and I understand why it could be like that. But I want to hear it from from your side. So why so-called only of s for now on an iPhone on iOS I've so in a nutshell iPhone apps are built basically and see in objective-c and then recently that switch the Swift and Android. 

Speaker A [00:16:40]
Apps are built in Java and it's a totally different system. So when you do when you poured an app from from iOS to Android or vice versa you have to basically rebuild the app now there's been some really amazing things like phonegap and there's been some really amazing technologies that let you build in HTML or JavaScript once and then immediately publish to both one of my best friends. 

Speaker A [00:17:11]
it's in charge of technology for 

Speaker A [00:17:17]
storycorps, which is an amazing service and he was an evangelist for phonegap. Like Kyle they were able to do all these amazing things and get onto both platforms at once that doesn't really work with backpack Studio because it's using so many. 

Speaker A [00:17:36]
low-level audio apis it works for a lot of apps but it doesn't work for backpack because of the fact that there's like, you know compressors and limiters any cues and a lot of C code that in order to Port over to Android you have to 

Speaker B [00:18:04]
Basically rewrite so my plan is to get there but it might take like a might take like a year. Hopefully, it'll only take a year. Yeah, I get out of every day. Yeah, and I mean that's for good full record because I think the users of an Android smartphone is probably not aware of it. Even if us Apple Fanboys Layman or Tech Guys, welcome back that I have used. I've used every system in the book, but I have become an apple fanboy. 

Speaker A [00:18:35]
Boy, and that's because I like the see how to use it and the market should understand that in a way. It's more difficult to create apps for Android on the other hand the day when I say it's more difficult. Okay? Yeah, it's white. It's not you have to start somewhere, you know, and it's only one time only one guy. Yeah, if I had a partner that only did Android development, you know, then he could do that and I could do that. But since I'm one guy I had to pick one and and I am a little bit of an apple. 

Speaker B [00:18:54]
Boy 2. Yeah, but it's good clarification because the day then Google gets it to get the standard or default app on their smartphones smartphones for Android the the listeners very could pick it because now it's which app should I use for example, I recommend Stitcher and still do or that you have your own app. That's as you could have with libsyn. So even though you could have it on Google. 

Speaker B [00:19:22]
Play and now the Spotify have I mean come up in the top there also, since I'm all for it, but it's important to understand that it's different to different systems in a way and an event is of course to you to decide which to choose and pick but I will be happy that then Google will come up with an app because when potential very with listeners will we increase so if thanks for that. 

Speaker B [00:19:53]
Information and clarification and I had a note here on my journals here that are thinking maybe I do want to talk a bit more about that how to develop an app. I mean, how do you when you were taking so-called over it or even maybe in the past where with the boss Joe Kapp? Do you want to talk a little about that the process and the development and also of course your future plans. 

Speaker A [00:20:25]
Yeah, all right, which one should I start with? You can take a little bit of a backstory in the backpack of the boss York voice. Oh, so developing developing apps. Well, so the App Store came out. I was working at libsyn in 2009. When the App Store was invented. I guess it was well, I read when the iPhone first did you have the iPhone? 

Speaker B [00:21:01]
First came out it was no I was not similarly. I had I had an iPhone that's what I'm saying. I've used all the other phones because iPhone had a price tag on it, but when I was wondering whooping honestly on the street and I saw an offer and I went into the store and then it wasn't a sales guy he knew what to say and he was very fair and sale see also in a good way as I'm joking and then I ended up with your 3G. 

Speaker B [00:21:16]
The iPhone very nice round shaped and colorful case I got to it and I was and then I was I mean, yeah, so what year was it because of it? Because before that I had bought a used one from a friend and a business contact and blackberry because I like the keyboard and I have this kind of thing but to in order to get to that and to 

Speaker B [00:22:12]
It I it was fun to play the game and used the keyboard, but it was like built by Engineers same thing with lyrics on another's and it's all good, but it's not user-friendly in in my way what I see it, but then you got the iPhone. It was easy to understand and to use that's why it's so easy to use. Yeah. What year did you get your iPhone your first 100? I don't remember but it was a treat for you clearly. Yeah. 

Speaker A [00:22:23]
Pretty early so I had about five or six years ago. Yeah even more because I mean time for right there is a night. Yeah. So the reason I ask is because I was working at libsyn and the iPhone came out in 2007. Hmm and there was there was no app store like the iPhone didn't have an App Store. So like you couldn't make an app or a couple for about a year or two. 

Speaker A [00:22:44]
I guess Steve Jobs infamously said that he didn't think there needed to be apps because he figured everybody would just build things on the web and they could just like link to them. Like web apps would be good enough, but that wasn't in like we experimented with that and we were like trying to make you know podcast aggregators and all this stuff and then after about a year, maybe two years. 

Speaker A [00:23:07]
Suddenly there was an app store and you could develop apps and it was like a gold rush everybody was you know, just building apps all day long. And so we you know, we were building podcast apps and then after I stopped working at libsyn I got I started to realize that my passion actually wasn't necessarily building while of I loved building web software for podcasters, but I wanted to actually work. 

Speaker A [00:23:36]
Wanted to have an audio engine and like work with audio signals and add Reverb and like mix them together and like like I can do this in a nap and published in to the App Store and like I had my own audio engine that I built in one summer in 2012, and then you know that that was the Genesis of Bostock and that was just like so so exciting that you can manipulate sounds on a phone from anywhere and you know make a podcast from anywhere like anybody could say like that was really exciting. 

Speaker B [00:24:32]
Just to be able to work with audio signals in offense and then that eventually became backpack Studio my new app, which is now you know, now we're working on am working on taking that to the next level live streaming recording guests and just you know, seeing how much stuff I can get people to do on the phone. Yeah, because I mean that's the thing also because I am not the technical guy how much could it be? 

Speaker B [00:24:39]
Much. Could you pack in your backpack? So to speak before getting before it's getting right? Because you are you like a boss jock and then as I said it did what it did but when it hadn't been developed, how do you say upgraded or developed or new version for some time? And when I reached out and I listened to her lips in about that and and LCN Rob gave some good advice and how you could use different ways of recording and then it came. 

Speaker B [00:25:09]
Came that, you know had this new one and I must blow my mind when I saw it because it was a great development and I like posture that and now I saw I still get the same feel but it was wow. This is a really new version so to speak but still yes same usability that you see you. I mean if that's the thing with iPhone if you know how to use it. I phone you will be able to use an iPad right because it's similar rain so you don't get 

Speaker A [00:26:01]
Lost but and then I will so that our wanted to hear about your future plans. But so yeah, so I'm not getting away from the main thing that you want to record in an easy way and you want to have some nice features but you don't want to have so-called too much because then it will be maybe you getting lost. Yeah the better the backpack, it's too heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like that's that's the 

Speaker A [00:26:09]
Rick like Bostock basically was a situation that stagnated where you know, I was I didn't have really the autonomy and that situation to create the features that the users were asking for. I didn't have the I didn't have the power so I created backpack where I could actually I could listen to the users. I created I actually the first thing I did when I launched backpacks. 

Speaker A [00:26:39]
Udo was you can see that the bottom of the backpack website was full and if you heard but it's at the bottom. It says boat on our next feature. It's a backpack Studio up.com / vote and I have all I listed like the top and things that everybody was asking for hmm like in emails up until that point it boss jock and like all the things that I was never really able to dig in and build 

Speaker A [00:27:06]
And I let people I said well, I I'm so excited. I'm in I can build all this stuff. I don't know which one to do first. I made I made that poll and I put it on backpack Studios Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and I got a you know, a few hundred votes in a couple days and it like the results of the poll blew my mind. It was like the opposite of what I thought people wanted like the number one thing that my users wanted was live streaming. 

Speaker A [00:27:36]
Totally shocked me at that that was good because I was able to you know crowdsource and listen to the users and know, you know, as a developer that's independent to not rely on guesswork or you know to actually give the users what they wanted in like a democratic fashion. So that was really exciting. So live-streaming became the first feature and then you could see them all listed. It's like 

Speaker B [00:28:22]
That was live streaming was the number one and guest recording is number two like we're doing right. Now. Remember I've guessed recording and then I think all the other ones are kind of tied. I haven't checked in a while. Yeah, it seems and I'm like, that's my road map. Basically. Yeah, it's interesting how you left the journey what you are doing and also the users but then also you have an addition what you wanted. I mean you want to use it yourself in a way because I see your photos and so on your playing around and you 

Speaker B [00:28:36]
Testing things and really I mean using you have to be a lot of fun. Yeah, that's good. I mean you should have fun and there we could talk about that. I mean we could run around up with this what you got my man talk about live streaming, but what do you remember I like because I bet it will be easy to use and and and nice and it cool thing because with the other features and or services that are tested and also talked about it was a bit cumbersome until overcast Marcus. 

Speaker B [00:29:06]
App for iPhone uses again with he used that and that's have been simple way and libsyn talked about that in an episode of the feet were official podcast of really obscene how listeners if you take can quote or or clip of a podcast, they could spread it to their listeners or to their readers on a Blog and so on and that could then getting distributed in an interesting way. 

Speaker A [00:29:47]
I mean this how you could do a small sample or the snake bite and then your listeners could spread it. If you know if you get mentioned on a podcast or like there's one part that you think is extremely funny being able to tweet that and put it on Instagram and Facebook. You know, that's 

Speaker B [00:29:59]
yeah, that's any that's an amazing to inaudible. Yeah, and I will have been mentioned that maybe you don't know what that service but I talked to on another Eagle search into with pod Chaser the service where and there I mean if you're mentioned or if you are as a guest on the podcast, you could create a counter on pod Chaser and say that that I was a guest on markings podcast and also if you are doing a 

Speaker B [00:30:28]
Jingle, then you could say that you are doing with the music of a jingle for that podcast. So but it will take time, but the listeners. 

Speaker A [00:30:42]
And now we are back. What did you do? Add? Yes, we got disconnected and it was my fault. Yeah, we went. Well we were talking about audiograms and I opened a audiogram creation app and it this is one of the problems with audio development on iOS is only one app can have the idea session at a time and I think what happened was. 

Speaker B [00:31:17]
Ringers audio session got disconnected. So instead of reconnecting unless it stopped our call and then downloaded it and we had to start over so it's kind of my fault. They're not no problem. And no I hope you learned about that then that's the thing and when it's working it's working. Yes that if you're fiddling with something or incoming call or something like that and all these things could happen and now maybe a side track here, but we'll come back to 

Speaker B [00:31:33]
222 what you grams and also went to live streaming. I think it's they are connected in way. But in the green room we talked about like ringer now, we're using long distance calls recording but you do want to tell about that that you have done investigations about how you could use like Skype and others or you prefer right in into your app because it's one now rude Road has this procaster thing. That is more like a 

Speaker B [00:32:04]
It's not the mixer board, but you could have these pads and you could have others and you could have in common like a mobile phone call or Skype or on its own so you could do almost like lie, but you could also have prepared sounds and jingles and effects so but it is to have a hefty price tag, but I'm very I mean it's on my wishlist and I know some podcasts there fell apart cause you out there that have that one and it looks cool. But I mean you have to have it in a backpack round to joke is this 

Speaker B [00:32:53]
It's like a like a more a bigger probably like how this call it the iPad Pro or something in that size. I mean, it's like you're talking about the the road so the precaster. Yeah, but you can call you can call guests from that. Yep, and you really how does that work? Yeah, and you're not you're talking no to non techie guy, but pair of love and Leanna they did that on their podcast in Swedish called pod geek 

Speaker B [00:33:29]
And then they had this she was sitting and go to bargain. He was sitting at on the island got land and they were talking to each other and and he got that into into the road Gad get so you could do that both out of exactly how we do it did but I don't know he didn't have a phone or anything the hardware can actually call a guest. That's amazing Yeah. Well, yeah, but they had to computer also, so if he actually connected 

Speaker B [00:33:34]
If it was with cables then or programming the computer then through the system and I'm fascinated with that. But what I say again, I mean you could get inspired by that but really your phone you have always with you maybe don't always have a set of five microphones and a record digital recorder or this road. It's my planned. So yes it with your app you could do. 

Speaker B [00:34:04]
Like an in a moment you could do like a note to self. That's the name of a podcast that she has manoosh about how to use apps and also the apps are good and technology is good. But it also could be stressful in a way. Is it an English or Swedish in English? She okay, excuse me wrote a book called Born brilliant board and Brilliant. I mean how to reflect on this technology thing. 

Speaker B [00:34:34]
We are so hooked up we in a way. It could never get bored. Hopefully the listeners are not bored by our conversation. But I mean you could as you as you did now you fiddle around with something else at the same time, right? But because you want to test it, but if you're bored you could sit in line or waiting for a bus. You could do something with your phone and in a way it's good, but it's also may be stressful. So she has written a book about that and it's it's Incorporated with her paw. 

Speaker B [00:35:04]
Cost and an episode that I have in the pipeline called connecting the dots. Have you played the game? They're two dots or dots. 

Speaker B [00:35:35]
Yeah, yeah, it's like little colored circles and you yeah. Yeah, and it's very simple idea and I haven't played it because I don't have how to save the patient to play even if I used home computers like a Commodore vic-20 and he guides on and played I imported floppy disk from Asia meteor. Yeah. I had a Commodore 64. Yeah that was here first and they even wrote a book about there. Yeah, the generation with generation 64 because where you have programs and others that did 

Speaker B [00:35:45]
Good stuff in the future. But but that's the thing that you you don't you don't have to get bored. You could get entertain the whole time. And then she interviewed the game developer off two dots she was both inspired by him but so-called a bit angry also because she got hooked and I haven't downloaded that bad yet. I don't have many many games. I used--yeah the Pokemon for a while. 

Speaker B [00:36:38]
I was not good at it and it took so much power from my phone that was kind of like that was kind of amazing because it was what two summers three summers ago. I guess everybody I was living in New York City and everyone was running around Central Park in the middle of the night like hugging and high-fiving. It was like Pokemon go was like this amazing social experience that has never happened. Like I'm all for it and the next and the next one is right and I and I could save it for record. I haven't read the books. 

Speaker A [00:37:09]
But what's her name is tole, you know, not talking. Oh the fantasy for short term mental talking. Yeah. Oh Harry Potter told Gil. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you Harry Potter. They have created the people who are behind that game have now created for Harry Potter. So that will be the next craze. Oh, no way. Everybody is going to be like Wizards. Yep, like oh that's going to be 

Speaker B [00:37:16]
Big yeah, but the funny thing when we're talking now now I'm jumping a bit around so we have to get back on track. But this is fun. The developer Who Behind similar one was on Google called with these Pokemon, but it was not designed it went that way. So it was more not so public for the public but people have used that more like a general and world called location-based service. Yeah and a game but then 

Speaker A [00:37:44]
Before Pokemon that the that same developer made something called. 

Speaker B [00:38:16]
The way they got all the data for the Pokemon up was there was there was something right before that. I forget what it was and it was location-based powered by Google and Android and so on but it was not so full of the common user. It was more of a geeky nerdy if it was learning as it was. Yeah, like, you know, we see what is called the game that you're collecting not coins but like Candy Candy Crush, it's all yeah, I will. 

Speaker B [00:38:35]
We'll remember it but you you walk around and you find things and cashier what is called? Yeah, it's like a map and you find it on your phone and so on and then you put it in the real world like like Pokemon you go outside. Yeah. Yep. Okay, so that's I did was more like that. So so you and I will add that in the show notes and I remember the names again. But so that's funny how you develop this and we do 

Speaker A [00:38:59]
talked about then that would you grab and also live streaming and then in doing so you had you saying about this Skype thing that was not built for yes. So you want to tell a bit about I guess there are they're all kind of ties together that when I when I created backpack Studio I wanted 

Speaker A [00:39:07]
I wanted to you the most important thing, you know, besides having the freedom to in the power to go anywhere, which is what it was called backpack. Hmm for the users to decide on the feature set. And so I created the pole that I was talking about before and I was very surprised that live-streaming was number one and guests. I'm not surprised. That guests were number two because 

Speaker A [00:39:36]
Boss truck we would get emails, you know, like every day like I want to record guests, you know this and this was like five years ago when it was even less possible than it is now. So yeah live streaming was number one and I implemented that and guests are number two. So that's what I'm kind of investigating working on now, but also the audiogram so I'm I'm kind of trying to do everything simultaneously. 

Speaker A [00:40:07]
And the lives. Yeah, that's kind of how my brain works. Like. I kind of multitask on stuff but the live streaming and backpack studio is out now, but it it's mainly all the people that wanted it. 

Speaker B [00:40:30]
Wanted to connect to ice cast and shoutcast which are like, are you familiar with those two technologies that could you tell internet because you held me because I have signed signed up for it. And I you just the one called I know here this dot at and /li seem very where is my profile? So the listener could check it out and see if I could I wrote something about me and my podcast but I don't think it showed up yet. 

Speaker A [00:40:55]
Night and try to do a live streaming but then I want to discuss this because well, it's ridiculously complicated. So like there's no lips. There's no lips and of live streaming. No. So basically you have an Antiquated technology called ice cast which every live streaming thing uses. Basically, it's an awesome technology that it's a 20 year old technology. Yeah and pretty much all of my, you know requests and backpack were all 

Speaker A [00:41:21]
people that wanted to connect live and it was for a multitude of reasons everything from a terrestrial radio station that wants to be able to you know, leave their studio and broadcast odie's music from a car show to a Catholic priest in Indonesia that wants to be able to stream his sermon from his phone to his parishioners. And so like there's all these different use cases for it that you wouldn't think of that. 

Speaker A [00:41:51]
no, you know because you know, the app was designed for podcasting and 

Speaker A [00:41:56]
but there were so many users of the app that needed at the necktie Scout servers that that was my number one most requested feature. So I launched that about a month ago. Yep, and everybody's really pleased with it. But like you said when you want to just you know broadcast live and you don't have any experience with having a that infrastructure already in place, like the radio station has or like that church hat. Yeah, you know, you're kind of stuck. 

Speaker A [00:42:26]
So I'm working on a built-in streaming solution so that you can just you know have X number of live listeners and then possibly a subscription package and then that's that same technology can also be used. 

Speaker A [00:42:43]
For recording guests I think so that's their kind of the two things are very intertwined because like we're talking to each other live. Hmm. And you know, it's having a server that can send a signal. 

Speaker A [00:42:59]
They can't be easily interrupted. So like when we're talking to each other right now, we're at a low quality. But when it renders when we're done, it's a very high quality. So it'll sound good when people are listening. So I'm trying to figure out how to marry those two things which is having people that want to list some live but then you want to send it with a lower quality, but then you want to Syndicate in a higher quality. So I actually I have a friend that's really good with back-end programming. 

Speaker B [00:43:52]
Programming that's kind of working on a one side. Hopefully something that will allow me to launch integrated an affordable Integrated Service that will give you what we're doing right now, but also live listeners, so okay. That's that's kind of been concerned that in the audiograms and you know a hundred other things, of course, that's interesting. And as I said full record, I am very pleased with ring and I followed them along those. 

Speaker A [00:44:16]
The journey, but yeah, this is fun trustee in you things and how things could lead to another and develop a name for this competition friendly competition. Also, that's why sky probably started with it because they saw an interest and then podcast is on after you jumped on it. I touch the sky PPI. Yeah. I just yeah. I tried just taking the Skype API and just putting it in and then like building an interface. It didn't really work. It didn't really sound like 

Speaker A [00:44:41]
It what it did it was clunky it was clunky. So yeah, I went back to the drawing board and I've been playing around with like, I'm pretty sure what we're doing right now is I webrtc technology. Okay, which this is the part where I think out it's a it's a web real-time communication. So it's a newer technology that Firefox or not Firefox that Google is I believe Google's behind it. But it's a it's a 

Speaker A [00:44:57]
protocol, basically 

Speaker A [00:45:00]
Like it like HTML that allows for real-time communication, which is what we're doing right now and it's relatively new it's in its infancy. So, okay. I've been experimenting with that and hoping you know that this could lead to having what we're doing right now with ringer inside of backpack. And then also a way to have a live listeners which is much which is a lot easier, you know with the ice cast or system that it would be nice if like 

Speaker A [00:45:29]
You shouldn't have had to you know, go to. 

Speaker B [00:45:45]
here this and sign up for an account and then put in, you know, ten different settings and then look then search around it was it was you know, it wasn't simple so don't mean I was totally new to it, but you helped me very well there and now I registered so I liked it but now I'm thinking but what I want to spend some time if you have a on discussing this because when you said these use cases and I have is my show notes also, what's your I mean buyer Persona or the user of this 

Speaker B [00:46:03]
Apps and I hear it's more and more different users here that they could use this kind of app. Oh, yeah, so like the but we're live streaming when I did that I saw on my iPad that it's something was happening. But then in a way if I wrote like hashtag on are hashtag recording if I had done the settings on the computer or iPad, it will record it on here with DOT act but I need 

Speaker B [00:46:33]
do it do it because I used the backpacks dude. I wanted to test that and I click the green button as or something was on air. I like that the green thing and I could see it on my iPad, but then I was thinking when should I use this? Could somebody be interest because I'm very realistic. I mean, I have a small base fan base and listeners, but I've been for a long time and and I'm all for it, but I'm not a talk radio. 

Speaker B [00:47:04]
Yet right. No nothing, but I'm thinking about what could I use these future for and that could be maybe once a week once a month some special up-to-date to news or behind the scenes or join me because we rely feeling as I talk to me green room with you. Also. I used service called blog Blog Talk Radio, and then you have this that you could call in but then they were fixing always things and during my years where it was. I mean maybe a couple of times that was you 

Speaker A [00:47:50]
used so it was not so big for me about on other shows like more talk radio. As you said somebody wants to share their live image image event to people all over the globe if it's interesting, so I want to test it. I think new study elections Sports coverage of breaking news in things where you want you want to be able to, you know, take a have somebody call in like the way like talk radio. 

Speaker B [00:48:19]
That works where they take guests like public guests life situations. There's definitely, you know, a lot of a lot of innovating to be done and then but then most importantly have it as a podcast that can be syndicated like this will be in a better quality. Yeah, and that would I like that you could do it because the real time and live has some kind of feel to it and it could be that it's okay that the court has said we call it if you're on the live like a football. 

Speaker B [00:48:33]
All game whatever and somebody's into somebody and you hear a lot of background noise. That's okay and then but then we'd both York, then you could also record it and then upload it as a regular podcast. Also. I mean, that's what I see in some of I mean professionals you can say or the podcast the Pro cost is out there. They have they recording it and you could have this podcaster Roundtable then they have guessed that being their own one one time and then we were talking about Lon. 

Speaker B [00:49:22]
A stencil like and then I was using my ringer and my simple headset and the other guests in the on this Roundtable podcast around the table. They had all these nice Studios and so on and I was just sitting in tonight with my iPhone and my this guy in Sweden. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and it wasn't pretty funny. But I mean they invited me for this reason because it was how you could use it in different ways. So I like this but you could do it in different ways so that 

Speaker B [00:49:51]
My mind is getting and now we do you grammars that you could do it in a nice way and you couldn't get new. Yes, and I guess what you share it in a night. We're trying to I guess what I'm trying to do here is the you know, take all these different Technologies and kind of glue them together. Somehow it's hard. 

Speaker A [00:50:13]
Yeah, so funny I'm talking about the users when you have this in a very smart of you to have his poll and survey and what kind of if you want to share that I mean how many users and how many different or they're all pod courses or where radio personalities or the deal? That's the funny thing. It's like it's 

Speaker A [00:50:16]
it's such a it's such a mix. I mean primarily podcasters. That's that's what's closest to my heart. So like when I when I launched this live streaming feature 

Speaker A [00:50:27]
I realized that a lot of the people asking for it. 

Speaker A [00:50:32]
The podcasters are interested in streaming live and the live streamers are interested in podcasting. So it's like when I launched the live streaming feature last month, I made an ad in Photoshop and I took, you know, like the screenshot of the hand holding the app and I wrote at the top podcasting and radio unite, you know, now you can record your show and stream live while you're doing it and I don't know. I don't know if the ad really worked, but I was trying to 

Speaker A [00:51:02]
Trying to unite, you know, the radio users of the apps that are using it as a soundboard live and dying for live streaming technology and the podcasters who get a aren't interested in that because they, you know, they know that maybe only five like maybe you have, you know, a thousand people that are going to listen to your show tomorrow, but if you do it live only like five people are there but like it's still like you said with guests and the podcasting round table, or maybe it's you know, sport something. 

Speaker A [00:51:32]
A sporting event or something covering a breaking news. Like there's definitely a lot of use cases, you know, sometimes you know, maybe once in a while you want to do your podcast live. So like trying to unite those two worlds instead of having them be two separate rules. So I was trying to come up with like advertising slogans podcasting and radio unite, but then I have another faction of users that use backpacks studio for sound design and triggering Broadway. 

Speaker A [00:52:02]
Plays and like the I recently launched a feature. 

Speaker A [00:52:07]
So that like when you play a sound pad? 

Speaker A [00:52:12]
Like if you go to the bathroom or something and you're not there when the sound patterns trigger the next some pet there should be a way to just program in a set of some pads to play. Mmm-hmm. So like I recently added that that's kind of like from the radio world. 

Speaker A [00:52:27]
but I mean for like this the live thing but the podcasters like it too so that you could kind of have 

Speaker B [00:52:52]
They have the sound pads flow into each other fluent fluidly. So like, you know some things that are available to radio have them be available to podcasters and vice versa. So there's a lot there's a lot of there's a lot of possibilities there. Yeah, and I hear what we could probably talk a lot more about all these I mean in a way technical thing, but for the Lehman's I mean what's behind or inside that ball? So 

Speaker B [00:53:03]
So because it has lots of settings where and I was thinking about that when you're recording by your microphone or without a microphone directly into the phone or as I'm doing with clients when we use this ik multimedia lavalier mic, but two mics linked together and then I put one how to say cable into two mics together into ones and then into the phone and then I have monitor. 

Speaker B [00:53:50]
Phone set them wearing now in one of the on the cable so I could listen and that's what I did this photo that you liked on Twitter and Instagram and so and then I could confide my order according. I love that. Yeah, and but but you have I mean standard and we'd microphones you had have other apps but with boss Jock It's So or as it's now called backpack Studio. It's so easy to use. 

Speaker B [00:54:03]
So that's why it it's great to buy this app. And also as I said if you want to have his life feature you add that purchase. So because that could be a if you buy your microphone, for example, when we could have some product placement If You by ik multimedia HD or if you buy a road or if you buy all my rig there, okay, I really but I like but I'm now using it. That's why I'm keeping my 

Speaker B [00:54:57]
IPhone 6s plus because then I could plug it in with the new remote models your you can't you have you don't have a microphone connection very in that way. You have to have an this adapter or how do you call it? Right. Maybe you are right calling you. Yeah, so that's I could talk about that for a really long time. Yeah, basically right now you're being naughty very long but for a little bit because you have to where I'm keeping my iPhone 6s. 

Speaker B [00:55:03]
Plus because I could plug in my simple iRig mic it cost. I mean, it's not very I mean it's very good for for price and for the size because I could put it in a small bag with me and I have it always but if it's a big as I have I have a ik multimedia like HD or you could have other brand but then it takes some more in your backpack. Right and I like the quality because it takes up. 

Speaker B [00:56:00]
I am now sitting also in my that I was a crowdfunding campaign like portable mobile how to say studio with with this kind of material but is taking way. Yeah Echo and so on. It's like a box with with cartoon thing with soft material that had putting my head in to that. But for now I've seen and I've seen that yeah, but 

Speaker A [00:56:20]
And that we would talk we could talk about other kind of variation and other settings, but you could do with your app and with microphone. So please tell about the how to say room microphone Outlets are or well, so the first there's a there's a bunch of things going on right now. So I mean the obvious one is Apple, you know decided 

Speaker A [00:56:29]
you're a few years ago to get rid of the headphone jack, which is how a lot of this stuff worked and they kind of 

Speaker A [00:56:57]
You know, they launched the are pods to go in your ear like basically everything they're saying was like there's no need for a headphone jack and audio should happen with Bluetooth and that creates a huge problem. How reliable is it? I have bluetooth headphones now, but yeah, so that's this was you know, this was one of the things that I struggled with the most with backpack because I'm like, you know, I do 

Speaker A [00:57:07]
Much did six months ago right in the midst of this giant transition away from headphone Jacks and microphones and headphones to even listen to this rule of Bluetooth where the microphone sounds terrible. If you try to record the microphone, it sounds even worse and then there's this terrible DeLay So I that that's something that I've really had to contend with that. I mean basically Apple, you know by getting rid of the headphone jack and forcing everybody to use Bluetooth Bluetooth isn't really ready. 

Speaker A [00:57:37]
D Bluetooth isn't for whatever reason I could talk about why but like Bluetooth isn't fast enough and it doesn't sound good enough, but that's what like everybody has. So I've had to kind of work around that like the first thing is the as like there's a ton of delay. So, you know, you would talk and then hear your monitor a second after you talk and the recording would sound terrible. So like I worked with some different users to come up with Solutions and the best 

Speaker A [00:58:26]
In is when somebody plugs in their Bluetooth, there are pods or you know, because the headphone Jacks go on and base if you go to Best Buy now did that Best Buy in Sweden like yeah similar to Best Buy also like every everything is Bluetooth. All the headphones are Bluetooth. So if you have your if you have your Bluetooth Hardware, 

Speaker A [00:58:34]
Just throw up in a this is what Apple does in GarageBand throws up an alert that says okay, you're recording and listening through Bluetooth. There's going to be a lot of delay we recommend plugging in but in this was Apple solution to in GarageBand is what they do. So I kind of threw up that same alert that says hmm. Okay, and I'm going to automatically mute so you can't hear yourself. So you're going to be on the delay, but you're not going to hear yourself echoing back with boss truck. That was a huge, you know. 

Speaker A [00:59:04]
The app was monitoring your voice and adjusting your signal in real-time and sinking on top of your music. So that delay, you know that creates a lot of problems and I think 

Speaker A [00:59:15]
You know for any kind of real time up like a keyboard up or a Music Creation app, you know the delay, you know almost makes it unusable. But I think that's something that will disappear in a couple of years because I think the next generate I think Apple knows about it. Then, you know, the next generation of Bluetooth will sound much better the microphones and hopefully me like a lot more real time so that it becomes, you know a better solution to like right now. They're get right now I'm using 

Speaker A [00:59:45]
Earbuds that are connected through the lightning port and they have the Mike and I and they sound fine so they're going to probably do away with that and they're like eventually just going to have Bluetooth so like okay. Yeah. Hopefully the hopefully the 

Speaker B [01:00:12]
technology the delay and the sound quality will improve too. That's something I worry about because I'm trying to create a studio in an app. Yeah without the external microphones. No / the later than Apple as an Oakland who donors and as Apple Fanboy they could think about why they have fought about this and done waistband is not really ready yet. But yeah, maybe somebody who have the insights with it. I as a user I they had this explanation that you could 

Speaker B [01:01:00]
The phone's thinner and also it will not get water into the phone and other things like that so that I could understand in the analog headphone jack was invented like 50 years ago, you know, it's yeah, but that it I mean, that's what's cool about Apple is they have yeah, it's a sound like a fan boy. They have a history of you know, killing off laughs, you know killing off obsolete Technologies, very aggressively. Yeah, so and it's good for 

Speaker B [01:01:25]
Them so I mean it's they see maybe the light and see if in the end of the tunnel. Yeah people. So yeah, the only people here doing real-time audio software. Hmm, you know, we got thrown under the bus a little bit but we're working around it and I think the next generation of Bluetooth will be better. Okay, and it's something right now with lightning good as a side note. There's a funny like Bluetooth in Swedish is blue with armed and that 

Speaker B [01:01:31]
So with historical mythological character like a viking called Bluetooth know what Aunt yeah, so because I think Eric some back in the day is behind it somehow with the sun symbol, you know this how to save the be that's looked very sharp or Edge. It's like that you have cut it in stone. I think that's the whole match to the contribute to the to the Viking and where this character called Blue to Blue. 

Speaker A [01:02:22]
Ooh Tableau Tableau ton in Swedish over Bluetooth in English. You have to send me a picture of him. Yeah, I will do that. So and and this guy do you have our other like settings or options or how you could use your app with microphones and and different settings or use cases if you want to share some of them so I've tried to support every single microphone that's out there. 

Speaker A [01:02:27]
you know like the the blue Mikey and the 

Speaker A [01:02:34]
you know, there's like ten popular podcasting microphones right now that podcasters argue about which one sounds the best and I'm trying to support them all I get, you know, they all have idiosyncrasies. If you have a dual Channel Mike where the left and the right separate. I have a setting in the options backpack Studio that lets you mix them into a single Channel, you know, like the like the iRig or like some of the lavender Mike's. Yeah, so like stereo 

Speaker A [01:03:03]
Down I support I think I might I think that picks studio is the only app that supports for channel. Hmm lightning and put like so a lot of the the 4-channel mixers so like there's a there's a couple of different ones where you could have four Mike's plug it in and I kind of mix them all four into one in the software. That was a pretty popular feature request. 

Speaker B [01:03:48]
Okay, so if you have because now I have these ik is lovely and Mike Witts two-in-one so to speak and I like that but if you would be so if you were using that guest how we want to set up steering wheel it will it be a mixer you have to put in Van if you add like for guests or outer Laura work if you have more than two guests. 

Speaker A [01:04:01]
So you can record. 

Speaker A [01:04:05]
For Mike's at once with backpack Studio by using like certain USB sound cards, like the focusrite 1818. There was a lot of requests for that. So if you wanted to have four people sitting around a table with four Mike's all getting mixed together, I didn't make it complicated. It's still just one microphone button and you have to manually mix the mics on the device, but it will record all four channels of all. 

Speaker B [01:04:47]
Ex, you know of the four people sitting around the table and the in the focusrite Scarlett, if you want to have four Mike's, you know going live at once at one table. So that was a lot of requests for that that's interest. And as I said in my case, I've used it for two guests on the level year with the client, but it's good to know that you could do it, but when it's more and that's why I was looking at because you like this shiny gadgets, right? So as soon for this microphone from England a few get it 

Speaker B [01:05:05]
Looks or sounded like a beehive I was under it looked like an orange thing that would take every sound around the table because I have even if I'm not a technical I understand. It's like two different categories one is more directed and what one is more taking sound around and both have how to say advantages and challenges also and but if you're sitting around a table with Bostock in the middle starting recording and you see the flashing things because then you see something is working and then you 

Speaker A [01:05:53]
For Mike's placed around the table. How will that work? So it will be now how do you say round sound or people talking into each other? Do you have to have special Mike's and you are welcome to product placement here. And I mean I Nation so what you have is not I'm not a big Hardware guy. I think I love the sound of you know, the iPhones built in my eye when people are asking me what my mic like, especially beginners like 

Speaker A [01:06:05]
somebody that doesn't already have that setup that they're used to like, I think the microphone that's built into the phone sounds great. And I think you know, like I'm using the I'm using the 

Speaker A [01:06:16]
I'm using plugged in. 

Speaker A [01:06:20]
Apple earbuds right now. And I think you know traditionally I think they sound you know, great that like a lot of podcasters are. 

Speaker B [01:06:56]
Like there's a there's a visual aspect to it. Like I see a lot of people starting their podcast and they have the they have like the blue yeti. Yeah. I'm reading my mind real big in the ring and he's like it's like it's like in front of their face and they're like my podcast is coming soon and it's like a yeah and I have one and the same status. Yeah Samson met your because it's very thin through design. So I like yeah, it looks also like you don't want to shine again gets. Yeah. 

Speaker B [01:07:27]
And it's reasonable. Yeah, but but but what I say to my clients and others is its as you say also it to just thought and doing and and again iPhone is good with that and here in with ring Euros, you could use your ear pods and you could you could record but then you could of course develop and you could test around and there I see it's a jungle out there. So it must be a challenge for you to test all these different microphones settings and I'm always ordering I'm always ordering and returning a different mic. Okay? Yeah. 

Speaker A [01:07:29]
I always have one mic like I'm returning and like there's like, you know, 20 of them. Now. There's another there's another setting in backpack Studios, you know, if you're feeling adventurous you can Des was in Boss truck. You can disable the automatic in control which kind of gives you 

Speaker A [01:07:46]
It gives you like a cleaner signal but you don't get the compression of the built-in mic. So some people were huge fans of that and they've been said enough to keep turning it back on whenever you restart. The Epic was apple-designed like we're kind of misusing a feature that apple apple intended for developers to disable the automatic gain control if they were creating an if they were creating an app that measures decibels like a like an audiometer. 

Speaker A [01:08:15]
Like something you would use to like make sure it wasn't too loud. Yeah, like not not a recording that but like a like a meter like a decibel meter. If you worked at an airport you wanted to make sure it wasn't too loud or something or like at a concert. You didn't want to you want to be able to test the decibels. So that's why they give developers the ability to disable the automatic gain control because most people think that it doesn't sound good, but actually it sounds great but it removes the compression so 

Speaker B [01:08:58]
You're quieter, basically, so that's a that's a setting that I kept from Bostock. Yeah, and it's in there if anybody wants to try it you just it's a says automatic gain control. Yeah, and I think this is an interesting both for podcasters Pro coasters in the podcasters so-called amateur as I am lovers or things. So I like tea I like things and doing things and just do it but also to learn about it. I'm curious to learn more about it and 

Speaker B [01:09:15]
And and also with these all settings because then it could have an impact depending on how you do the settings. So for your information I have used your default settings on everything, but I want to learn more about thing then I could fine tune it so to pick same thing with with phonic. I'm using the standard settings very I have now changed the so-called - laughs 2 to 14 because that's what people at libsyn and others and 

Speaker A [01:10:13]
No way. We've a podcast if you listen to the feed when you learn all the new things coming and also ahead then they talked about Spotify and the so-called intelligent the speakers that have raised the so-called level but for laymen are maybe you don't hear that but if you have these new settings where needs how do you say optimal for new technology? And you get gets DIY it? I don't fully 

Speaker A [01:10:32]
Understand the like the left like, okay. Well, how about trying to spell how do you how do you spell left? Luf? I think it's another F. Laughs we to Earth and Naas. And then the Ayah, I put them level 82 lat. Yeah - 14 I am setting it for not like a decimal. It's like a decibel. Yeah. 

Speaker B [01:10:41]
Yeah, I'm just I'm not to I'm not super familiar with that term, you know uff. Yep. So that's what I'm setting in when I'm doing post-production because now we're talking about other podcasts, but it's fun because when they they could ship in and shiny in Robeson have been talking about on and also LC about the lips in is feed with it the podcast so that it had been very if it's so-called too loud because you 

Speaker A [01:11:36]
Don't want to bury you have a decibel again. You don't want to how to say that is getting too high because you see that on iPhone also that they will say if you turn up crank up the highest volume, they will say now it's too loud for your ears and that's good in a way because otherwise you could destroy your ears, right and you can get as becoming got get sued and so on so that's why they have is setting its kind. 

Speaker B [01:11:54]
It sounds a little bit like snake oil to me because like the phone has a the phone has a built-in limit to how loud it. Okay. So like I understand good idea of a loudness unit. Yeah, but it's just volume and compression. Yeah like and that's that's good to know and that's what the role but I think and maybe I'm misquote now so I could stand corrected if I'm saying in a wrong way now, but what that's what Rob is saying, I would have its so-called be Tad too loud. 

Speaker B [01:12:07]
For the listeners, then it's easy to decrease the volume. The important thing is to get the end product as good as possible as he said, I mean we are recording at in a convenient way and then you are using the so-called the post-production. We do phonic or a liter or some other service to level eight things in order to get the n-well thing with that maybe you could as an iPhone Apple Fanboy, but also technical guy, why are they still on MP3? 

Speaker A [01:12:39]
File format at the end exactly. Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. It's just yeah, just I don't know. I like I've just Googled love. Yes. It's a decibel. Yeah, it's just it's like a it's a different way to express the time that like and I'm automatically doing that in backpack Studio like yeah, you know, I'm showing the levels and I'm using that I'm using the word decibel and it sounds like some there. 

Speaker A [01:13:07]
Are you using the word love? I mean they're different. I see what the difference is, but 

Speaker A [01:13:35]
Theoretically it's a seems like the same thing to me. Okay, and that's good to know how many visit that death? Yeah. I mean as I said General user or particles is not concerned about it, but when you read about it, I mean it was unbelievable and beliefs in this also don't really care about they wanted just to sound. Yeah, I mean in a good way not too loud or not to and most of all for listening without headphones, you know, and they're on mobile like a lot of sand needs to be loud and it needs to be somewhat. 

Speaker B [01:13:43]
Impressed so I can see why. 

Speaker B [01:13:46]
Just what I like the video future another a plan we talked about before we draw diagrams overcast. They have this for the premium that as me I'm not talking so loud, but then you could boost my voice with the feature and also they could speed map if they don't have time to listen to me. They could speed up and it's still just sounds good. So I like this all of these thing because it's again, it's up to the listeners how they want to consume. 

Speaker B [01:14:14]
Umm broadcast but yeah, so it's an interesting to see that you have been have heaven and that we talked in the green room again about it, and maybe we not do a spoiler alert, but we will talk about maybe you'll hear about us in the future also listeners dear listeners in a project tab. We'll talk more about that. But what I like would you have put lots of thoughts and energy and time and resources into good settings at the beginning that you don't? 

Speaker A [01:15:03]
Have to fiddle around but still I think the users could be interested to learn more about it both on a Laban level but also for the tactic people who want to deep Diane more dive into it. So do you have thoughts about that will the future I mean how to yeah, it's just it's it's basically it's basically a limiting and compression and EQ, you know, EQ controls how much bass and treble is in a 

Speaker A [01:15:14]
no and limit limiting and compression is kind of the same thing. So like if you're quiet if there's a part where you're not you're you know, you're not close enough to the mic making it louder and if you're yelling into the mic making it quieter, so like you kind of get a more compressed signal and that seems to be you know, kind of important now because everybody a lot of people were on mobile devices without headphones and then there's you know, there's these things with music with called the loudness Wars the basically it comes down to dynamically boosting and lowering. 

Speaker A [01:15:44]
Volumes really quickly and like some software's really good at that like some mastering software and then some isn't so like with backpack Studio were recording live. So there's there's a little bit of that and like in Bostock. There was a ridiculous amount of EQ like trouble EQ there was like there was like, there's like a whole lot of what you would call like on your EQ if you if you had a 10 band EQ 

Speaker A [01:16:14]
and you took the five if you took the five sliders on the right and just slid them up like kind of a massive trouble beaut boost that was just in there by default that I never liked. So like one of the first things I did with but with backpack was removed that yeah and then keep some other filters and other compressors but make them gentler and just you know, just trying to find trying to find something that sounds good because like you said people aren't technical I want them to 

Speaker B [01:16:58]
Able to just record and it sound good. You know, I want it. I want the lust already be there, you know, you shouldn't have to yeah do any crazy services or spend extra money for that? I just want to you know have that all be in the app. And as I said again, I'm forever marketing and and the uses and the producers to decide and each other on the market and see what you it's open and it's pays for everyone in a way but I like your thinking here because otherwise 

Speaker B [01:17:14]
Guys, if you as I said if you buy a microphone off and you could include a nap there or by an extra or download it or you could use the iPhones or I don't know how it is on Android but what is called like the me more and poor feature and there you could record something also, but yeah, we'd bought with backpacks to do it sounds good from the beginning from the gadget and and then you could add. I mean we haven't 

Speaker A [01:18:01]
Talk so much about the the SB called the coach before but now the pads could you tell a bit more about that? Because that you have for example, we in that feature in rode podcaster that you put like Jingles messages bumpers and all kind of things good. Yeah, so being able to trigger the sound pads, you know is a very important part of back deck Studio One of the soundboard is unlimited so you can basically have as many some pads. 

Speaker A [01:18:14]
As you want and the way that works is when you fill up a page or some pads, you can just scroll to the left and a new one appears automatic. It works the same way that apps work on your home screen. So when you get too many apps on a page just you magically get a new page. So that's high. I have been there some good work. Yeah, that's good because you're continuing up the sound board as long as you want and then when I launched six months ago, hmm, I immediately got 25 requests like in the first 

Speaker A [01:18:44]
Ich be able to rearrange the pads so you can go into the pad editor and you can move them around like this because people want to move the poisson pads around the same way. They went to move the apps around on their home screen. So there's that and then there's a ton of settings you can do like docking like whether or not you know, the volume drops when you turn the mic on which is sometimes important. Sometimes it isn't, you know Auto rewind looping. 

Speaker A [01:19:14]
Quickly play the next pet like things that are hopefully self-explanatory and simple but you don't have to go into those settings. But if you want to you know, if you're if you're intermediate enough that you want to tweak the behavior of the sound changing the start and end point of the sound, you know, what else is in there changing the color of the sound pad just settings that you don't have to screw with but are there if you need to screw with them, but, you know not having them Blog the app down. So like you just 

Speaker B [01:19:53]
Hold down on a sampad the same way that you would hold down on an app. Like if you were going to delete it. So like holding down on the sun pad brings up the editor. So hmm, and that's good to know and I think it's you have done. It's very how do you say user interface we do friendly and you learn by testing and doing yeah at the same time, I think and that could we maybe talk about future with this idea but popped up during the Green Room that I think it could be interesting if you have 

Speaker B [01:20:14]
Time energy and see that you will get results from it like the instructional you have instruction page, but also like maybe new videos read concentrate on like one feature one segment one application or some like that. You have got these feedback. Like how could you use it? I mean thinking brainstorming thinking about yes, but I know about that what I like with podcasting also even when you're doing a solo show because you thought you could talk about things that's on your mind. Maybe it's only you 

Speaker A [01:21:06]
Interested, but you never know. It could be something somebody else that have haven't had this idea also for tour thinking and it'll get that out in the world. Then you could share it and get feedback and comments and you could continue it. I like its expression in English. You could add in your two cents. You could continue the conversation. That's why I one thing that I didn't want one thing that you know, I couldn't really control and Bostock that I can control my own backpack studio is the importance of social 

Speaker A [01:21:14]
Social media. So like when you go into the settings screen, I have the Facebook in the Instagram and the Twitter like right and the email right at the top because I want people you know, I want people to send me a direct message at 3:00 in the morning being like hey, I have an idea, you know, like the user it's I'm dependent like you just said I'm dependent on the users to 

Speaker A [01:21:37]
Come up with those ideas. Like I mean, I have the ideas to but it's so much fun or when the users have an idea and then I say like, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's like the the voiceover Community is like so awesome and so important the voiceover users and I get a constant, you know stream of messages about how of things I could do that are just really quick and easy like like the other night was like like the three finger double tap. 

Speaker A [01:22:07]
Tap if you're on voiceover voiceover technology for visually impaired. So instead of instead of the the voiceover announcing that you're recording hmm to which would sometimes leak into the headphones to have it ding the same way that other apps do so, like I'm always able to tweak little things for The Voice every users and it's cool because it's like 

Speaker B [01:22:54]
I can do these adjustments really quick. You know that I rely on social media to like if you if you have an idea for backpack Studio, you know, follow me on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook and send it because I'm constantly I'm trying to I guess I'm trying to crowd Source it yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and then just go ahead and and and how could you listeners are not as and I mean get as I said contact with you but also spread the good word about 

Speaker B [01:23:16]
Out your site soup that's huge because I'm totally unable to work on it full-time as long as cells, you know or reasonable. Yeah, it's apparently so and as I said it was thinking of wrapping up what I hear we could talk more about that, but we could do that. There's a thing also, I mean we'd Versailles as I said because it's an app that you pay a premium for like around ten dollars and then you have want to have a live streaming you pay another $10, but 

Speaker B [01:23:36]
Then as like other services that I'm using for example Ulysses four notes, but I like that it's on for iPhone and iOS also, then they had this price on it. But now we have a subscription service. Yeah in a way then they could develop it because lots of people now using it but then you have to find new users and you app buyers right in where your situation so that 

Speaker A [01:24:23]
Spread the good word about yes, I'm trying I'm trying not to do the thing. I'm trying not to do the subscription where you'd there's like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of video editing apps right now. Yeah where you open them up and they don't do anything unless you subscribe and and you get a free trial and then you forget to unsubscribe like yeah, that's every that's like every video editing app. So I'm trying not to like I think people are getting sick of that so I don't want to 

Speaker A [01:24:35]
I want to try to I want to do to totally get like the most awesome recording studio ever for $10, but then I'm going to try to introduce. 

Speaker B [01:24:56]
I'm going to try to introduce a subscription for the things that are server-based obviously like, you know, the guests and build in live streaming and things that like, you know, not everybody needs but would require that infrastructure not a month Lisa because then you could scale it also because that's important to know I gladly subscribe to the service that I use like ringer and and all the to and and you listen others. But also if you have an app that is good to start with and to get 

Speaker B [01:25:13]
Is good quality I want to pay it and that's it and also because I have several hundreds of apps and I've said everyone others or subscription has services and and you could listen to these protocols for free and I'm doing because I have fun and of course I it had led to other things also like clients and and speaking engagements. And I mean I have yesterday. I had a podcast meet up and I were with his worries t-shirt called The Messengers documentarian. 

Speaker B [01:26:05]
Podcasting for in dupatta coasters but I supported with a little money because it if you have a message, yeah, you want to spread that and you then you have listeners then you have a whole thing about marketing and reach out and and so on but if you have been around for a while, you know that it things takes time. Yeah, very patient. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I want to do have you on the show also to have an in conversation but also to I mean Spotlight on 

Speaker B [01:26:13]
F and discuss it and I see as we've talked man now again in the green room. I think it's a possibility very that you could I mean you could think it from different ways and angles and it's self-explanatory in a way but it's then different layers and then you could have different use cases and experiences and you could share it and you do it really by Passion and you also knowledgeable about it and the good quality. 

Speaker B [01:26:43]
Because it's as you said, it's lots of apps out there and it will I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah, he's he has a podcast called the bad crypto podcast and they start to visit. They were amateurs. We didn't know so much about but they were you'll come he is a great internet marketing and they wanted to start it and they started he long time ago. He started he had an app that did I think a fart sound sound or something like that totally. 

Speaker B [01:27:32]
Islam says app, but it's old and it was fine, but then you know it I mean it's funny for it for a while but then maybe not so but the talking cat with my favorite that yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's how I think at made like a million dollars. Yeah, so it's all good. But but what I'm saying with your app is that and also be bought sir kit was so good as it was and and then you want to I mean tell people about it. 

Speaker A [01:28:06]
Hello podcasted, but also others at introducing to this swear or it could be like that you having it as I said, no to self that you have like how to say and notes mental notes. What you do on your own your app. You could have it for music you could you could do all kinds of things with it. So I guess you know, I'm trying to like unify a lot of different things, you know, like people didn't people that are working with audio that like didn't 

Speaker B [01:28:22]
Realize that they were podcasting or suddenly podcasting and like, you know podcasters are suddenly doing other things with it. Like that's you know, it's fun to see where it goes. Should we because we talk to you about that in the Green Room should take that or to it. Maybe leave it for some other time. We talked about this app and service called anchor and how you easily could start with the podcast but then they have the beginning they didn't talk about it as a podcast. We talked about like an audio. 

Speaker A [01:29:11]
What did you say audio recording? Oh, yeah. So anchor anchor is the like thousand pound gorilla in the podcasting space right now. They're you know these at least at least not know Rob walls from they're getting all the new podcasters and they're kind of building, you know, like well, I guess Spotify owns them now but you know, they created like a really simple TurnKey solution for podcasters, but yet it's also very controversial. You have to read the terms of service. Right, right. 

Speaker B [01:29:23]
Stay on the content are putting the ads in it's like it's they're putting it into other services, but it's you know, it's very controversial. What do you think about it? Yeah, and I'm all for it. This is said if you know and if you read the terms of service and and as a great start into the pot voice where and that's what ileane Smith is doing because she have a show on OWN anchor and how to use it and so on and then maybe you want to use some other service and as I said the market will 

Speaker A [01:29:58]
decide but you should you should learn about it. And if there's a lot of have hidden agenda or some yeah good intention it will it will come out sooner or later. It always does. Yeah. Well like so I think the benefit of so Spotify thnkr now, right? Yeah. Yeah and there I don't know if they're gonna like integrate their two platforms like Ehrlich how tightly they're going to do it, but I get it I get a lot of messages. 

Speaker A [01:30:13]
From people that say they produce and backpack and then export to Anchor which I'm totally fine with I'd like yeah, I'd like to facilitate that process like I facilitated Lipson. Yeah, like I have a lipst and Export button in back to the studio and it's basically just it automatically takes your lips and FTP and username and saves it and lips. It's kind of clunky folder structure where you have like four different folders and they all do something different. Yeah. So I 

Speaker A [01:31:09]
I built that into so like it's like it's like the destinations that I built into the app. I would like to facilitate that with anchor and like a child. I'm not sure how they like. I'll tweet out them like anchor alright on Twitter pod morning and iPod morning. Hey, you have an API, you know, it's like yeah, they ignore me because there's a gayageum like, okay, so listen up no wanker. I mean I want to connect to I want to connect backpack to as many services as possible, you know. 

Speaker B [01:31:13]
And that's good for you. And I thought do I want to say for the record also that talking about libsyn they are really connected with the podcast so called moment and pod courses and India podcasters and everyone between and they are listening and they have their own show called the Fiat the official podcast. Yeah, right and Robin off the yeah, so and I think given you actors and players should think about that also because it's often a long range game. It's a marathon. It's not a Sprint. 

Speaker B [01:31:43]
And you could have a different I mean angles and how you if you want to do an exit or if you want to make a buck pretty quickly and that's fine also, but for podcast series, especially how to say nature or yeah SS of the podcasters. Yeah. So so you have to think about that also, so but what I like we could do math like an end the ending or wrapping up also with it's easy to 

Speaker B [01:32:37]
That you record I use this as I said with default settings when it's recording in mf4 a or something like that, right because im a champion for a or yes Kodiak basically. Yeah, and but it's basically have two types of compression you have MP3 and then you have AAC codec which people confuse with apple, but it's just, you know, it's like a potato potahto thing. Okay, and I use the default but then as I said because we're 

Speaker B [01:32:43]
Talked about these MP3 and word for it. But also I have used back in the day, but I used this MV the Apple thing and in vain way in some cases then it disappeared because we're RSS feed they didn't recognize it in way. But I like what you have that you could choose all kinds of different as I said four minutes and bitrates and how you these yeah III send it to myself as an email. Yeah when I recorded I 

Speaker A [01:33:39]
I listened to it and I and then I sent an email to myself and then I downloaded on it's a bit I mean, but I want to see that is working and I want to have it as a copy and then I could start doing the post-production but where I like with your thing, but in a way you could do similar to Allah to you could almost do everything in the post-production and after recording in your application. So that's great. Yeah, if you yeah, I get a lot of 

Speaker B [01:34:12]
do you know there's there's there's a new compression format called Opus opu has that's like it's open source, unlike the other codecs and it's actually like part it's from the same people that made Ogg and like I suggest and I surprisingly I haven't had anybody ask for Opus then I want to put it I want to put it in there alongside of MP3 and AAC and like, you know as a as a format as an alternate codec choice and 

Speaker B [01:34:13]
And if you could maybe end they may be some leases was confused and to joke. I'm already bad. But will we Drinker now with the premium feature I could then weave on one point cause we have with in switch called productivity at or be productive and drinking tea at the same time. Then you won my co-host he's doing the post production and editing is on then we are using like individual tracks in a certain format the best format there, but when I'm doing it in on my podcast 

Speaker A [01:34:59]
First I'm using this flak like this loud less because could you tell me a bit about visas the differences because it's a matter of taste in a way fine. I like ringing but I have children. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a lossless codec which which means it's really high quality. So it's not a bad idea to have you know, an uncompressed file like that or a large file like I mean, what's the problem with a mobile? 

Speaker B [01:35:35]
Like backpack is you know, you have a limit even though the hard drives are huge. You still have a limited amount of space. You don't want you don't want your hour-long podcast eating up, you know 10 like, you know, 10 gigabytes of something because you used uncompressed audio. Yeah when bit but it's not it's it's definitely not a bad idea to have if you have the space for it. Yeah, because I mean they're not comprise to the MP3 that's the end product through through when I do the post-production proof. 

Speaker A [01:35:46]
Please continue the thing that's most important is like is the sample rate the sample rate and the bit rate of which you actually publish like I think 192 is great. I can tell a difference between 160 and 190 to sometimes if there's like a lot of symbols in the music or like a trembling voice. I can't tell anything higher than 192. Like I can't tell the difference between 192 and 320 and on a similar note. 

Speaker A [01:36:13]
with with sample rate 

Speaker A [01:36:19]
I can't I get a lot of emails asking for 48 instead of 41 41 kilohertz is CD quality and 48 is basically only bats can hear it. It's it's really it's really high frequencies and I get I get passionate emails to support it, but it uses battery and it uses, you know hard drive space. So I've kind of been reluctant to do that, you know, if it was a laptop where you have an unlimited amount of battery. 

Speaker A [01:37:10]
Storage, but it just doesn't make sense in a mobile device. Hmm. So to be continued yeah to be continued because now my mind is boggling here. And yeah, and I every time you do it and everything is some new things you read up on it and learn about it, but then I forget it because when I mean with low and I don't want to think about it you just want to be creative and hit record. You shouldn't have to worry about that, you know use the default settings and that's you know, that's basically what's great about backpack Studio. 

Speaker A [01:37:43]
If you want to go under the hood and you need and you know, you know what that stuff does do it. That's why it's there, you know, if if you bit if you're a beginner or an intermediate and you don't you don't need to be Technical and that's the whole idea. So that's great Ed so here at the at the end. If you have any new future teachers that you want to tell about you could tell that and then we'll yeah, it's what we covered it all like audiograms guest guess audio. Well, I want to do it all, you know audiogram. Yes. 

Speaker A [01:37:49]
If you go to backpack Studio app.com vote, you can see the road map, you know, the the live streaming is done and then guest recording audio grams, which I'm working on now and unit some kind of editing like you were saying like the post-production stuff. Yeah. I'd like to put a simple version of that inside but you know not way the backpack down like you said hmm, and of course Android support, so hopefully I'll go hopefully as long as you know enough people are telling each other about 

Speaker B [01:38:41]
Backpack Studio. I could keep working on it full time and everything will be great and I'll get there. That's great. And and when you're doing the programming and working and develop yeah going to continue and if anybody wants to beta-test just send me a message on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook or email. It's all in the setting screen of the app. That's great. Yeah, when you're when you're doing these development and programming and thinking about it and pondering do you read any books or how do 

Speaker A [01:39:01]
get the inspiration inspired and inspiration and get the new knowledge and fortunes on and what do you listen to books like audiobooks or well, I mean 

Speaker A [01:39:03]
Like specific like for programming you can't read a programming book because everything changes so much in a year dated. Yeah, so like I you know, I basically, you know watch apples, you know developer stuff as far as that as far as non as far as non-programming stuff goes, you know, I love interviewing podcast. I love listening to like like what you do interviewing people. I like less. I love radio. That's why I do this, you know. 

Speaker B [01:39:50]
Of podcast. Yeah, that's my main source of inspiration. I guess great. Yeah. So yeah, it's good to hear and also we'll talk probably more about that. I think yeah and hopefully so we can do this again and entirely inside of backpack Studio. Yeah, some sounds like a plan in a month in a couple months. Yeah. Do you have any ID or tip on a future guest but you would like to listen to 

Speaker B [01:40:27]
For you? Yeah anybody that does what I do, I've there really aren't that many developer podcast. I listened to Marco's podcast the accident that podcast and a few other like iOS like kind of Swift nerdy kind of things. You know, I love you know, I love celebrity guest. I love listening to people talk about their life. Yeah, you know like the Joe Rogan Marc Maron kind of stuff. Okay? Yeah, and he's very popular Have you listened to tea? 

Speaker B [01:40:45]
Sinclair that we see you found the of ringer. He has started his new podcast velvety. Yeah. I know. I follow him on Twitter, but I haven't listened to his podcast yet. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm the janitor. Yeah do that. So it's always who human I think it's called his new. I did also podcast series called my worst podcast into you and then he into the podcast with with like quirky moments and so on and what we learned habit 

Speaker B [01:41:02]
and I think that's a fun fun idea also because as I said, it's a big space here and if you have a say I'm inspired. Yeah, I would say plenty of individuals to start podcasting themself with my help and by themselves and and if same similar to that why I want to talk about the book because I was written my first book on T. And I want to do a whole series about that with nice illustrations by fine artist and cartoonist. Will John Cox, but I said everyone has 

Speaker B [01:41:56]
Book inside them. It could be $1000 smaller. But same thing with podcasting then of course is who would listen but it could be your closest friends. It could be your family your co-workers. I mean, it's yeah and with your with your applications add it's so easy to do it. It just do it as an Ikea saying right? Yes just there. Yeah. So if like, you know, you can do it. Yeah go. Yeah. Let me if I could do it you could do it Lisa. 

Speaker B [01:42:26]
That's also programming to yeah, I mean if you want to develop an app, you can learn programming like you could teach yourself anything now. So yeah, and and that's neat so and at the end because during it seems I have been drinking tea. What's your favorite beverage? You know, I don't know if you could tell but I drink iced coffee like all day long. I'm addicted just like really strong like cold brew. Yeah. Okay. Do do it by yourself or is it like a powder or I got a coffee? 

Speaker B [01:42:45]
I'm at home right now because I didn't want there to be background noise, but I go to I go to a couple coffee shops every day and I get a I get an iced coffee and I drink way too much and it makes me Hyper but I love is Happy. Okay, that's that's good. Huh? I'll try T. Yeah, are you in the is it in the Philly steak area or wherever you're located? 

Speaker A [01:43:16]
Right now, I'm in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, which is where I grew up and I'm actually staying with my family. Yeah, and but I kind of go back and forth between here and New York City and New York city has the strongest cold they call it cold brew. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean you drink coffee and you're just typing real fast and you're just, you know, going and going and going and then it works and then you crash and you want to like 

Speaker A [01:43:46]
That's that's the thing. You want to have a kick in the caffeine and but the same thing you have a coffee in into yours, but it's called T. Een and you could get pretty strong brew from that. Also. Have you had his so-called bullet coffee that's with strong coffee. And it's also like a butter or lard or something in it. Now I've heard I've heard it I've heard of it, but I haven't had it yet. I try to keep it as simple as possible. Like I know that like a like star. 

Speaker B [01:44:06]
Buck's has like Nitro cold brew now it is like on a beer tap but I haven't I haven't gone there yet. I'm already drinking like too much of the regular stuff somewhere. That'll kill me. Okay? Yeah, you have to you have to keep awake and keep be safe also at the same time. So keep on programming head and so thank you very much for your time. And please end it with your ending note where they could reach out to you and find find the app. And so yeah. 

Speaker B [01:44:47]
Backpack Studio backpack Studio app.com backpack Studio on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. So yeah, it's just talk to me there. It's just me, but I totally rely on users and feedback and you know, it's really exciting because there's a lot more there's a lot of cool stuff. I'm working on and I'm excited about it. So great to hear and touch ya part of the forecast start your podcast and use backpacks to you. 

Speaker A [01:45:01]
You app and thanks again for your time. And for this nice conversation and talk soon again. Yes, let's do it. Thank you cheers. Cheers.