# JD Vance and Jake Tapper on CNN | 10.27.24 Auto-transcribed by https://aliceapp.ai on Tuesday, 29 Oct 2024. Synced media and text playback available on this page: https://aliceapp.ai/recordings/p3cWIBJ0bQzds4qTHOyEg5UZX_t2Ya19 * Words : 3,745 * Duration : 00:17:38 * Recorded on : Unknown date * Uploaded on : 2024-10-29 16:21:33 UTC * At : Unknown location * Using : Uploaded to aliceapp.ai ## Speakers: * Jake Tapper - 39.73% * JD Vance - 60.27% ---------------------------- Jake Tapper [00:00:00] Senator Vance, good to see you. Thank you so much. JD Vance [00:00:02] Thank you. Jake Tapper [00:00:03] So, um, let me ask you. Obviously, Trump's, uh, former chief of staff, General John Kelly, um, was alarmed, he says, by what he heard when Trump said he wanted to use the National Guard or the Pentagon to go after the enemy within Americans with whom he disagrees, including the Pelosi's Adam Schiff. And then he gave an interview, he said that Trump, quote, certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, that he is, quote, certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. Jake Tapper [00:00:30] You've called him a disgruntled former employee. Um, but why shouldn't Americans out there listen to somebody who worked closely with Trump, worked with him longer than you've worked with him, uh, retired four star Marine general, served his country honorably, uh, who is conservative, who says he agrees with Trump on most policies, but is worried about this aspect of Trump. JD Vance [00:00:55] So let me say two things in response. So, first of all, a lot of what John Kelly. Pretty much all of what John Kelly accuses Donald Trump of saying. There were other people in the room, Mike Pence's former chief of staff, for example, who've explicitly said Donald Trump never said those things. Right. JD Vance [00:01:09] So one on Mike Pence is not. Jake Tapper [00:01:11] Gonna support Trump because Mike Pence's former. JD Vance [00:01:13] Chief of staff, uh, said that Donald Trump didn't say those things. Right. So that's number one. Number two, I actually think there's an interesting conversation here to have, Jake, which is why does John Kelly not support Donald Trump? It's about policy. It's actually not about personality. Jake Tapper [00:01:27] He says he agrees with Trump on most policy. No, he agrees with Trump on most policy. He disagrees with Trump on how Trump views his role and the fascism and the authoritarians. JD Vance [00:01:37] I don't buy that, Jake. I don't buy that. Because if you actually look at John Kelly, at folks like Liz Cheney, the fundamental disagreement they have with Donald Trump is even though they say that they're conservative, they're conservative in the sense that they want America to get involved in a ton of ridiculous military conflicts. JD Vance [00:01:52] They want America to police the world. And Donald Trump wasn't. Jake Tapper [00:01:55] John Kelly lost a son in Afghanistan. Why are you saying that? He, like, I've never heard John Kelly say whether he supports Iran or Afghanistan. JD Vance [00:02:03] And I honor his son's sacrifice and I honor his family's sacrifice. That doesn't mean he's not wrong about policy. Jake Tapper [00:02:08] Do people. What specifically are you talking about? What is he sad? JD Vance [00:02:11] Is your argument that a person who lost his son in Afghanistan can't be wrong about public policy. Jake Tapper [00:02:15] I'm asking you then why bring that up? JD Vance [00:02:17] Let's talk about public policy. Jake Tapper [00:02:18] Because you were asked. JD Vance [00:02:19] Because you've never criticized his service or his service. Jake Tapper [00:02:21] I brought it up because you're acting as if he is pro war. And I've never heard him say whether or not he supported the war in Afghanistan or the war in Iraq. He was a general carrying out orders. JD Vance [00:02:30] Because I know John Kelly's worldview and I know the people who have attacked Donald Trump the most vociferously on foreign policy. They'll say, well, he's a dictator, when what they really mean is they won't listen. Donald Trump wouldn't listen to the leadership of the military when they wanted him to start ridiculous conflicts. JD Vance [00:02:49] That is a consistent theme. And I think that there's a big, big thing going on in American politics. It's a very interesting theme in American foreign policy where a lot of former members of the Pentagon bureaucracy, a lot of old neoconservatives, they have a fundamental difference with Donald Trump on the question of peace and war. JD Vance [00:03:09] I believe Donald Trump is the candidate of peace. I think the record supports that. But the reason these guys go after him so vociferously, I don't think that it's about his personality, Jake. I think that it's about they don't like that Donald Trump said no when a lot of them wanted to start a ridiculous war. Jake Tapper [00:03:24] Well, you're ascribing worldviews, I think, based on gut. I can't really tell where you're coming from on it. There's no evidence based on people that. JD Vance [00:03:32] I've talked to in the Trump administration. Sure. Jake Tapper [00:03:33] John Bolton. JD Vance [00:03:34] John Kelly wanted to do John Bolton, Liz Cheney, These people have a consistent. Jake Tapper [00:03:38] John Kelly was at the Department of Homeland Security and then he was chief of, of staff. He was not weighing in. I don't even know what you're talking about. But let me ask you something about John Kelly specifically, because you said the other day, quote, I guarantee John Kelly talked to somebody on Kamala Harris campaign beforehand before he did this interview. Jake Tapper [00:03:54] Now, I've spoken with people in John Kelly's circle and I've spoken with people in the Kamala Harris campaign. They say there's been no communication the entire time. So where did that come from? JD Vance [00:04:03] I'm highly skeptical of that, Jake. You know the way that these attacks work. You know the way that these people are often vetted by a candidate. So you made it up before something goes out there? No, I said that the American Media and the American Democratic Party apparatus works a certain way. If it comes out that John Kelly never even spoke with a person in the Kamala Harris, I'm telling you that, uh, I'm happy you're telling me that. JD Vance [00:04:26] Based on secondhand conversations with John Kelly. And it's interesting. We've now spent, Jake, three minutes talking about John Kelly. If it is true that he never spoke with anyone in Kamala Harris orbit, I'm happy to apologize to John Kelly for misstating how he delivered this news to the Atlantic magazine. But let's talk about, who did he deliver this news to? JD Vance [00:04:45] To Jeffrey Goldberg, a guy who lied the United States into the Iraq war, which led to the deaths of millions of innocent Arabs and thousands of innocent Americans. You don't go to that guy if you don't have a particular ideological motive. I think that's what's going on. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to say that I'm wrong. Jake Tapper [00:05:04] I think it's interesting that you think that a magazine writer lied the American people into war. JD Vance [00:05:09] Well, he encouraged it. He wrote stories that were dishonest. Jake Tapper [00:05:12] He wrote a story about the gassing of the Kurds in, uh. I forget if it was the Atlantic or the New Yorker, but I'm actually referring to John Kelly talking to the New York Times. JD Vance [00:05:20] He wrote stories, by the way, where he took what intelligence officials in the American Pentagon bureaucracy said and wrote it as the gospel truth. And this highlights the entire point that I'm making about Trump's foreign policy is this is a guy who wants to use American troops sparingly. He wants peace through strength. JD Vance [00:05:39] It's why his foreign policy was so successful during his first term. It's all the same. People who were wrong about Iraq, they were wrong about the quagmire in Afghanistan, they were wrong about Syria. They were wrong about everything. And now they're coming after Donald Trump because he actually has a realistic and cautious foreign policy. Jake Tapper [00:05:57] I'm talking about people who worked for Donald Trump in his first administration. That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about not just John Kelly, but Mark Milley, who was the Trump appointed chairman of his joint of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who disobeyed Trump's. JD Vance [00:06:11] Direct orders on troop redeployments. Jake Tapper [00:06:13] And I'm talking about the guy that had your job. JD Vance [00:06:16] Massive. A massive, massive violation of his constitutional oath, by the way. Jake Tapper [00:06:20] I'm talking about the guy that had your job before Donald Trump's supportive, uh, crowd wanted to hang him. Uh, Vice President Mike Pence, who said, as you know, that Trump put himself before the Constitution. I'm talking about General Mattis, also Secretary of defense in Trump's administration. I'm talking about Mark Esper, the Secretary of Defense, who told me that Trump does have fascistic tendencies. Jake Tapper [00:06:41] John Bolton, H.R. JD Vance [00:06:43] Mcmaster, Melissa Faragriff, administration official to every Trump administration official. You know, one reason why Kamala Harris doesn't have as many people criticizing her is because she doesn't fire people who. That's why we haven't had a real audit of the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal, is because Kamala Harris protects failures in government. Donald Trump fires them. JD Vance [00:07:03] And I'd much rather have the president who fires people who screw up. Now, Jake. No, no, no. This is an important point. No, fire Mike Kamala Harris. Jake Tapper [00:07:09] You did not fire Mike Kamala Harris. He did not fire Mark Milley. JD Vance [00:07:13] Kamala Harris. Jake Tapper [00:07:14] He did not fire General, uh, uh, I mean, uh, John. JD Vance [00:07:18] He fired a lot of those people, Jake, and he did because they weren't doing their job. But this is the thing, Jake. We've now spent five minutes talking about people in Donald Trump's staff who think. Jake Tapper [00:07:29] He'S not fit for office, who he. JD Vance [00:07:30] Fired, who we think he's unfit for office. Oh, they didn't think he was unfit for office until they had a falling out with him because he fired them. And we're not talking about the public policy. Well, we're actually talking about how Americans can't afford groceries. Jake Tapper [00:07:43] Can we talk about the fact that. JD Vance [00:07:44] Americans can't afford the cost of housing? Jake Tapper [00:07:46] Can we talk about the fact that. JD Vance [00:07:48] A lot of people out there in Erie, Pennsylvania, they're the ones who suffer and die when people like Mark Esper and Mark Milley don't obey the commander in chief orders. Jake Tapper [00:07:56] We're talking about Donald Trump and what he says. Yes, Donald Trump says. JD Vance [00:08:01] And you'd much rather talk about what Donald Trump allegedly said. I'm talking about what Donald Trump did in office. Jake Tapper [00:08:07] Publicly. JD Vance [00:08:07] What he did in office, Jake. Jake Tapper [00:08:09] What he said publicly. JD Vance [00:08:10] 1.5%. Jake Tapper [00:08:11] He's the military to go after the enemy within, which is the American people. JD Vance [00:08:16] He did not say that, Jake. He said that he was gonna send the military after the American people. Show me the quote where he said he was gon. Jake Tapper [00:08:22] He said the enemy within. JD Vance [00:08:24] Far left lunatics. He's talking about Pelosi and Schiff. He's talking about people rioting after the election. Jake Tapper [00:08:31] I think Pelosi's were rioting after the election. He said Adam Schiff was riding after the Election. JD Vance [00:08:36] You're using two separate phrases. He said about using the military that far left lunatics, people who riot in the wake of an election, people who burned down American cities in the summer of 2020. Yes, we should have a federal law enforcement. Jake Tapper [00:08:50] This is what he said to Joe Rogan on Friday. The enemy within. That he wants the military to go after enemy within. A bigger problem than Kim Jong Un. We have to. We have people that are really bad people that I really think want to make this country unsuccessful. That's the enemy within. JD Vance [00:09:05] Did he say that he wants to use the military against those people? Here's the game. Jake Tapper [00:09:09] Military to go after the enemy within. JD Vance [00:09:11] Here's the game that you're playing. He said that he. No, no, no. Let me. Can I answer the question, please? He said that he wanted to use the military to go after far left lunatics who were rioting. And he also called them interesting. He also called them the enemy within. He separately, in a totally different context, in a totally different conversation, said that Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff were threats to this country. Jake Tapper [00:09:31] Were the enemy within. Were the enemy within. He said they were the enemy. JD Vance [00:09:35] So every time he uses the exact same phrase we assume that he uses. Jake Tapper [00:09:37] I don't know. I don't throw around the term of enemy within to talk about using the military against destroying American people. JD Vance [00:09:43] And you're asking his vice president, but you won't let me answer the question. I'm telling you that Donald Trump has said, and I agree with him, that we should use the US Military to. Jake Tapper [00:09:51] Go after America, people who riot, who. JD Vance [00:09:54] Burn down our cities. Jake Tapper [00:09:55] And this was what John Kelly. This was what John Kelly was alarmed by, the idea of using the US Military to go after Americans. That's what he said. JD Vance [00:10:04] Donald Trump never said Americans writ large. You keep on putting words in his mouth and my mouth. Jake Tapper [00:10:09] Are they or are they not Americans. JD Vance [00:10:10] Far left, people who commit acts of violence, who riot in. Jake Tapper [00:10:13] Now you're doing a very narrow definition of what he said. Which is not what he said. That's not what he said. But let me ask you, let me. JD Vance [00:10:18] Ask you the bigger point. Let me say that Jake, he did. He said that he wanted to use the US Military. Let me clarify. Jake Tapper [00:10:24] Go after far left lunatics. Yes. And then he also added looting. He added Schiff and then he added the Pelosi. And then he added people that don't want the country to. JD Vance [00:10:33] Adam Schiff. He said that Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi he used in a separate context and a separate conversation. And what you're doing is you're smashing totally different conversations. Jake Tapper [00:10:43] Fox asked him about this last week, and he didn't take issue with it. He said the enemy within is the biggest, is the biggest threat to the country. JD Vance [00:10:50] He say the enemy within that he's going to use the military against Nancy Pelosi. Donald Trump offered Nancy Pelosi the National Guard on January 6, and according to private email, she rejected it. Jake Tapper [00:11:00] So let's talk about things that he wants to do that are feeding into this concern that people like John Kelly and, uh, General Mattis and General, uh, um, Milley have. He said on Friday special counsel Jack Smith should get thrown out of the country. He's threatened to arrest election officials who cheated. We know that he believes a lot of people cheated that did not cheat. JD Vance [00:11:21] He said he wants to violate the law. You should be arrested. Jake Tapper [00:11:24] Uh, no one disagrees with that, but he's talking about. Apparently you do based on the way you're asking. No, based on the fact that he's accused people that didn't break the law of breaking the law when it comes to the election. And if you want to revisit that, I'm happy to. But Liz Cheney, he said, should be put before a war tribunal. Jake Tapper [00:11:39] None of that sounds fascist to you at all? JD Vance [00:11:42] No, of course it doesn't. Jake Tapper [00:11:43] What, uh, are your list changes before a military tribunal? JD Vance [00:11:45] First of all, I don't buy into the premise of what you're saying, Jake, because I just. On things that I know that he said, on things that I know that he said, you're imputing things. You're taking words out of context. You're taking two separate conversations and pretending that they were made at the exact same time. JD Vance [00:12:02] So I'm rejecting the premise of your question. I frankly don't believe what you're saying about Donald Trump's words. If you'd like to put up a clip and actually put him in context, I think the American people would realize that Donald Trump is a hell of a lot more reasonable than the people like Liz Cheney who would like to lie us into war. JD Vance [00:12:19] Now, Jake, we also have to remember, I mean, step back a little bit. Well, ask yourself a basic question about network integrity. You guys talked about the Russia hoax nonstop. Jake Tapper [00:12:29] The FBI was investigating it. The FBI was investigating it, so we covered them. JD Vance [00:12:34] And so you took the words of unnamed FBI agents and put them on your network as if they were the gospel truth. You did it again and again. A viewer of your network would have believed that Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin conspired in 2016. No, that was totally and preposterously false. Jake Tapper [00:12:49] No. JD Vance [00:12:49] Well, that's what you just said is false. Jake Tapper [00:12:51] We covered an FBI investigation. I don't know why you want to talk about the FBI investigation. JD Vance [00:12:55] You covered it in a way that gave credence to anonymous sources accusations. You did it yourself. Your network did it, Jake. But again, can we talk about the issues that Americans can't. Jake Tapper [00:13:06] I'm talking about things that Donald Trump has said. JD Vance [00:13:08] Yes. Jake Tapper [00:13:09] If you have an issue with Harry, whether or not he's talking about the economy enough, that's between you and your running mate. I'm talking about things he has said this week. JD Vance [00:13:16] Every single rally that he does. He talks about how he wants to unleash American energy so we can lower the cost of groceries. He talks about the fact that housing has become unaffordable. He talks about the wide open border. Jake. Kamala Harris and her allies. You know, it's interesting. Kamala Harris and her media allies and I would put CNN in this category, you guys. Jake Tapper [00:13:33] They wouldn't. JD Vance [00:13:34] You guys seem to. Jake Tapper [00:13:35] I'll tell you that they wouldn't. JD Vance [00:13:36] Well, they should watch your network more because you guys seem to care more about Donald Trump's past than the future of the American people. We're running this campaign on making of the American dream. Jake Tapper [00:13:47] I'm specifically asking about how Donald Trump is going to be president in the future should he win. And then we're being told he's going. JD Vance [00:13:53] To pursue economic policies that lower the cost of groceries and make life more affordable again. He talks about it every single day on the campaign trail. And. And so do I. What you're talking about is an anonymously sourced story or one guy. Jake Tapper [00:14:06] Nothing anonymously sourced. JD Vance [00:14:07] One guy who is a disgruntled employee. Jake Tapper [00:14:09] I told you where five other people, 10 people, 10 people, five other people. JD Vance [00:14:12] Pushed back against him and said that what he said was dishonest. So why don't we talk about the policy that's affecting American citizens and not what Donald Trump allegedly said, according to one guy who's pissed off because he got fired by Donald Trump. Jake Tapper [00:14:25] I didn't bring up any of the things that he said. He said. I didn't bring up. JD Vance [00:14:29] Brought up John Kelly and that I just described. Jake Tapper [00:14:31] I brought up John Kelly's, uh, view of Donald Trump. I didn't bring up John Kelly talking about what Donald Trump said about Hitler's generals. I didn't bring that up. I talked about John Kelly's view of Trump based on something Trump has been saying in the last week. So that's what I asked about. JD Vance [00:14:45] So John Kelly makes accusations that are rejected by five people. Jake Tapper [00:14:49] You, again, you're talking about something I didn't bring up. JD Vance [00:14:51] I think that maybe implicates his overall judgment. And I think the fact that he has a worldview that's so oppositional to peace and prosperity suggests that he's not an honest arbiter here. This is not a guy John Kelly going to brag to, Jeffrey Goldberg, who is interested in the American truth or is interested in telling an honest account of Donald Trump. JD Vance [00:15:10] He's a guy with an ax to grind because Donald Trump fired him and disagreed with him on policy. Jake Tapper [00:15:14] So all those 10 people, including the former Vice president, uh, Mike Pence, all of these people have this horribly damaged worldview, and they're all just going after Donald Trump because they want to send people into war. JD Vance [00:15:27] That's what. Jake Tapper [00:15:27] That's really your argument? JD Vance [00:15:29] Absolutely. Jake Tapper [00:15:29] It's not like these are conservative. These are not conservative Republicans. These aren't conservative Republicans who are concerned about Donald Trump. They're not. That's not right. JD Vance [00:15:38] All of these people, Jake, they came into office thinking that they could control Donald Trump. That when he said he wanted peace in the world, the fans thought he. Jake Tapper [00:15:45] Could control Donald Trump. JD Vance [00:15:46] Yes, he did. And when he found out, really, when he found out that he couldn't, they all turned on Donald Trump, and a lot of them got fired. And we're running and we're trying to staff the government with people who are gonna govern according to principles of peace and prosperity. Jake Tapper [00:15:59] Let me ask you. JD Vance [00:16:00] They're, uh, pissed off about it. Jake Tapper [00:16:01] Let me ask you because, uh, we're being told that we're over. JD Vance [00:16:03] Yeah. One more question. Jake Tapper [00:16:04] You have to go to this. You are running to be vice President of the United States, and there is a 50, 50 chance, maybe better, I don't know that you're gonna succeed. Are you running to be vice President of the United States, or are you running to be vice president of the red states? Jake Tapper [00:16:19] Because if you win, and there's a decent chance you will, you're gonna be vice president of childless cat ladies. You're gonna be vice president of, uh, legal Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio. You're gonna be their vice president, too. Are, ah, you running to do that, Jake? JD Vance [00:16:33] Of course I'm running to be the vice president of all Americans. I'm running because I want people to be able to afford a good life in this country. You know how I grew up. You know that I grew up in a family where things were often tough. I want, whether you're in a blue state or a red state, whether you're gonna vote for Trump or you're gonna vote for Harris, I want you to be able to have a good life in this country. JD Vance [00:16:51] But what's not gonna happen with the broken leadership in Washington, D.C. let me give you a statistic, Jake, because here is what the leadership of people like Kamala Harris and Nancy Pelosi and, yes, Mike Pence. Over 30 years in this country has led to. A person with a bachelor's degree lives seven years longer than a person without a bachelor's degree. JD Vance [00:17:12] There are a lot of people who have gotten rich and powerful, uh, off of American decline. Some of them have had Rs next to their name. Some of them have had Ds next to their name. And the first person who I believe is really putting the interest of the American people first is Donald J. JD Vance [00:17:26] Trump. So, yes, we're going to be the president and the vice president for all people. The only way to do that is to reject the failed consensus. Jake Tapper [00:17:34] All right, thanks, Jake. Thank you so much, Senator. Appreciate it. JD Vance [00:17:36] Absolutely. Jake Tapper [00:17:37] Have a good time out there. Yeah.